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Post by John Green on Feb 12, 2012 12:58:33 GMT
At the risk of sounding contrary,I wonder if its worth being a bit more optimistic with regard to lost-sorry,misplaced (I'm being positive here) material?
Vast amounts of Doctor Who survive.Every episode on audio,many stills,hundreds of tele-snaps.Just this week,DWM covers more unearthed documentation,while NATEOTL features new off-air images from the Troughton years.
Then there are the two latest (as of this writing) rediscovered episodes,one Troughton,one Hartnell.
Imagine if you'd had a fourth-dimensional glimpse of the preceeding sentence six months ago."The two latest...rediscovered episodes".But how quickly the shine wears off,replaced by the frustration of waiting for them to come out on DVD.
Understandably,people have been saying for years "Thh...th....that's all folks!".But they've been proved wrong.
What would happen if we approached the subject in a different manner,said we know,or are pretty damn sure that there ARE more out there? Is it more heretical or foolish to say it now,than to have said it in mid 2011?
Tell the public things are missing believed wiped,believed gone forever,and who's going to have the right attitude for searching?
If we say "The silver bunny's out there somewhere.Can you find it?",people realise they're not on a hopeless quest.Flip,even live Avengers have turned up,and since they weren't pre-recorded,you'd need a time machine to....Oh,that was wrong,too,wasn't it?
I'll say it again.I'm convinced that there are more Whos out there.
And no,I have no proof,and more than I have proof that more Roman villas will be found in England in the next 10 years.
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Post by Anthony Clark on Feb 12, 2012 14:29:48 GMT
Facts! Bring me facts…
Beat with senseless with a stick of rhubarb – why are we all of a sudden being subjected to this low-level twaddle? If you want to believe something exists without any proof, then go ahead. But please don’t post about it here.
This is a forum about missing episodes, not baseless faith, although I’m sure there’s a space for that somewhere on the web. It just ain’t here.
Right, I’m off to rejoin the Flat Earth Society.
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Post by adamjordan on Feb 12, 2012 14:51:21 GMT
I would normally let this Gallifreybase type post sink without trace. We are here ostensibly to discuss lost material and possible leads to lost material, we should remember this.
You want to be more positive? Good for you Jgreen.
I don't expect anything else survives, so if anything does turn up it will be a bonus to what we have rather than a reminder of what has been destroyed a long time ago.
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Post by John Green on Feb 12, 2012 14:54:24 GMT
Anthony,
Thanks for replying.
We have no way of knowing that more episodes exist.If they don't,that's it.
Though we'll never know that's it,of course.
On the other hand,there seems a strong possibility that they might.They were recorded,copies were made,and some of those copies have surfaced,most recently a few months ago in Hampshire.
If we're 100% certain that that's it (as certain as we were in August before the two latest ones were found),what's the point of bothering everyone?
You say "If you want to believe something exists without any proof,then go ahead".Does that mean that you know that no more exist? Why didn't you tell us?
I think it's a reasonable supposition that there are more out there.I feel this as strongly as I did before the Galaxy 4 and Underwater Menace episodes were returned,and I don't think it's on a par with a belief that Elvis still lives,that the earth is flat,or that prawn cocktail crisps are a good idea.This doesn't mean that I'll feel betrayed or deceived if none turn up in the next five years,or that I've been a victim of nasty rumours.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 14:55:13 GMT
No one had any hard facts about the two recent recoveries a year ago and so effectively they didn't exist...until it was proved they did! It's easy to prove something exists but almost impossible to prove something does not. Unless someone has x-ray vision and is able to check out every building on the planet, it can't be said with any degree of accuracy that no more exists. So faith (or law of averages as I prefer to think of it) plays it's part. Until the existence of something IS proved, there ARE no hard facts! Nothing is impossible as is repeatedly proved with DW. It's a good and positive thing to keep an open mind on the possibility of more episodes existing.
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Post by John Green on Feb 12, 2012 15:31:18 GMT
I'm fairly sure that x-rays would actually have a fairly detrimental effect on the tapes...
Didn't someone once have a bet with his mate that the world would end on the following Tuesday? The winner was to pick up his winnings on the Wednesday.
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Post by David Robinson on Feb 12, 2012 15:50:11 GMT
Considering missing episodes come along once in a blue moon, if we didnt have posts like what jgreen posted then this board would be dead. Before the recent recoveries there were times when nothing got posted for over a week. Whats wrong with posting about keeping a positive attitude?
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Post by George D on Feb 12, 2012 18:24:51 GMT
I dont think the board would be dead. We'd be talking about other things like exploring more details on what we have, sharing potential leads, and discussing areas where we can look. Reconstruction type talk would also abound. I think John is a great guy and I personally have nothing against the "cheerleading" type posts. However, I understand that some want this site to be more of a technical jounal and I feel bad when many people being well meaning get their feelings hurt or are unintentially frustrating and hurtful to others. As to the concept of faith I really dont think its a bad thing. If we really didnt believe there was the potential for something else out there, we might as well close up the forum and cease looking for material. If the BBC had more faith in the recovery of missing episodes, perhaps money would have been put toward it 20 years ago, and we would have 20 more episodes? Encouraging one another, even if there is no evidence, can get results. And even if we dont find dr who looking at the forum i see much non dr who uncovered during the past month thanks to work by ray and others. As a side note, if someone doesnt like these kinds of posts, the best way to see them gone is not not comment which keeps them going. Im really suprised that while the cheerleader posts dont bother me, based on the response they get, that they are still appearing suprises me. but we all go on and have a great day  |
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 12, 2012 21:02:28 GMT
'...to everything there is a season..' so the saying goes.More classic Doctor Who missing episodes WILL turn up,it's statistically inevitable.Maybe not in a form we're expecting,maybe MORE than we dare hope but it keeps the creative juices flowing and maybe influences 2entertain to do justice to all those missing stories and release them in re-constructed or animated form,so making the value of the TV licence worthwhile and re-investing all the profit they make from us.This will come from the powers-that-be taking note from forums such as this and seeing our enthusiasm!
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Post by John Green on Feb 12, 2012 21:07:20 GMT
George,thanks for the kind words.
I don't,though,think of it as cheer-leading.
Look at it this way.Tomb of the Cybermen was found in 1992,about twenty years ago.Anyone who thought that those were the last episode finds was wrong.Wrong every week for twenty years,though I grant you that the crop's been pretty lean.
Ian Levine (nice guy) was wrong when he went on camera and said that's it,no more left.Those of us who believed that more survived,despite have no proof were 100% right.Better than the head of Bank of England for predictions.Not that I ever did a stroke towards finding any,of course.
The second twenty years starts this year,and we've had thread or two saying "That's it,no more left",and it seems as though the hope-that-dares-not-speak-its-name,the belief that there are more episodes out there is sometimes fairly unpopular,with people saying "Where are they,then,if you know this?".
All I'm suggesting-and it may have been wiser not to-is to see what a change of tone might bring about.Saying that we're pretty damn sure that there are likely to be more Troughton and Hartnell to be found,even in the farthest reaches of Gosport.To say to people "Help us find these,if they survive",rather than "Help us find these,we believe they've been wiped".
Staring at an empty box,dressing up in a ra-ra skirt can't make a pizza out of thin air,but it's just possible that there are some pizzas.
I'd better finish by saying that i can understand how frustrating decades of false rumours must have been for fans.
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Post by Rob Moss on Feb 12, 2012 21:33:06 GMT
More classic Doctor Who missing episodes WILL turn up,it's statistically inevitable. No it isn't. |
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Post by Rob Moss on Feb 12, 2012 21:37:05 GMT
Considering missing episodes come along once in a blue moon, if we didnt have posts like what jgreen posted then this board would be dead. Before the recent recoveries there were times when nothing got posted for over a week. Whats wrong with posting about keeping a positive attitude? Frankly, given some of the rubbish that has appeared in this forum in the past few weeks, I think I preferred the way it was before. |
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 12, 2012 21:54:35 GMT
'Oh well,you can't fight fate I suppose...'the great Tony Hancock once said!
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Post by Brad Phipps on Feb 13, 2012 1:09:56 GMT
Ian Levine (nice guy) was wrong when he went on camera and said that's it,no more left. Ian said that as a joke to try and get the universe to spew out more and be deliberately proved wrong. And a year later... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 13:52:55 GMT
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