Can we stop at 106 Episodes and forget about the rest ?

[James Anderson]

I don't know much about Dr who but you guys know everything and have the answer to every single question even when a new tread is made. The thing is every stone has been turned and every single question has been asked about missing episodes

Can we stop at 106 and say that is it ? and no more episodes will be found becouse they are gone forever

[Brad Phipps]

No.

[James Anderson]

Just like the other person who made a tread that said

THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END .

[Deleted]

I'd settle when a few more Troughton stories turned up - and not before! There are enough Hartnells existing to satisfy me (including quite a lot of his key stories) but Troughton's era is shockingly depleted. Troughtons are what I'd be primarily hoping for from any further recoveries in future!

[Brad Phipps]

Air Lock and The Underwater Menace 2 were thought that before two years ago as well.

I'm not saying we're gonna get many more, and getting to double figures is starting to look doubtful.

But no one here would lay down their guns and accept 106 is all we're ever gonna get to.

[Alex Taylor]

*sigh*

You cannot prove a negative; therefore it is not possible to know whether we have found the last remaining episodes that were out there. Maybe we have, maybe we haven't. Five years ago it looked like that might be it, and then in 2011 two more turned up. Maybe they were the last - and maybe another one will be found tomorrow.

Were the majority destroyed? Probably. Do we know that as an absolute fact? No. We don't even know how many prints were made. We know the minimum and maximum number needed for each episode to cover the known sales, but this does not allow for: additional sales prints that were never needed; duplicates for countries that needed additional or replacement prints; viewing copies (some of the episodes surviving today do so as viewing prints rather than sales prints). We *do* know how many sets of film-recordings were made of each episode (in most cases, at least) and it's pretty much certain that the missing negatives are long gone since there's no evidence that people were salvaging these; similarly it doesn't seem likely that any of the few missing 35mm copies were salvaged so we can write those off too.

At some point we'll have found everything there is to find. We may even have reached that point in 2011 - but we will never ever know (unless of course every single episode turns up, in which case the question of whether there are still more copies out there becomes irrelevant!).

[Greg H]

Jun 23, 2013 9:42:51 GMT @laurencepiper said:

I'd settle when a few more Troughton stories turned up - and not before! There are enough Hartnells existing to satisfy me (including quite a lot of his key stories) but Troughton's era is shockingly depleted. Troughtons are what I'd be primarily hoping for from any further recoveries in future!

That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. Whilst a few key Hartnells are missing or incomplete, his run as the doctor is fairly well represented considered in the context of archive holdings of that age.

On the other hand Troughton has really taken quite a savaging whichever way you look at it and as much as I am a huge fan of the Troughton material that does survive, I always have a nagging feeling that some of his best stories are either not represented in the archive or only barely so. That said we do at least have the one complete story from his first two seasons, Tomb of the cybermen, which for me at least is one of the high points of surviving who. Episode one of Web is pretty iconic as well.

[Brad Phipps]

I'd love to find an episode from each of the 10 entirely-missing serials.

But that would mean 10 more episode discoveries.

...challenge accepted.

[Timothy Austin]

106 missing episodes. 27 missing or incomplete stories. The thing is though, I don't consider 106 entirely missing. After all we do at least have the audio soundtrack for every one of those 106 missing episodes, thanks to those who made recordings from their television sets in the 1960s. What we actually have are 106 episodes missing the visuals. The bonus is that with the soundtrack existing the visuals can be recreated, most notably with animation and CGI. Having both 'The Reign of Terror' and 'The Invasion' on DVD (both with two episodes animated) I feel I've seen them complete. I agree with others on these boards that whilst it is a great thing when ANY missing episode turns up, I'm a bit more interested if it's a Troughton episode. As his era has been the worst affected by junking's, and there's things you will see visually from Troughton (expressions, etc) that you can't see on the audios. Seasons 3, 4 and 5 are the worst affected. The bulk of Seasons 1, 2 and 6 DO exist more so than NOT.

[Alex Taylor]

Someone once said - on Roobarb's, I think - that "if you're blind, as I am, there are no missing episodes!"

[John Wall]

Those actively involved in the search believe that there may be a few more out there. There are leads, that most posters here are unaware of, still being followed and there are gaps in the surviving paperwork. Every so often a new avenue, such as Ice Warriors in Germany, opens up and, of course, nobody knows what is in private collections either unrecognised as missing or, theoretically, being hoarded. I, personally, believe that there may, eventually, be less than 100 missing but I have no idea which episodes are likely to turn up or when.

[Paul McDermott]

Not sure what the question means.

Could we/would we/should we stop looking?

Given that's a personal choice thing, I guess it depends on the individual.

Some day, I guess, but who knows when, the majority of seasoned hunters are going to reluctantly conclude that even if there's anything still to be had, we may never know.

If there's any clever clog mathematicians hereabouts, maybe somebody's already crunched up a speculative model, taking into account variables like the rate of film decay, and other factors - a sort of actuarial table of probability.

It may be already in Wiped, but I confess I've yet to read it - rather looking forward to getting a 2nd edition copy in the very near future.

I suppose the 3rd edition will cover the flurry of recent days with a special blank chapter, good for all future related nonsense too!

However, the fact remains that in hunting for lost stuff we can and have found lots of other footage worth having back in circulation, stuff that defies sense in being around.

I read about a lost Three Stooges short that turned up in Australia recently, and a few years back, that Metropolis print from the 20s, both suggesting that lucky finds are still out there.

Smarts and diligence are required in equal measure too, of course.

I don't know if there's a Ladybird book of Lost TV Episode Hunting, but I guess not. That means I can't get out and push, to help the search.

Unlike some though, I sure ain't grumbling about the hit rate to date!

I'm just hoping that the folks who are making the effort to keep up the search are still afire and enjoying it.

Bottom line, as has been mentioned a bit, if we don't look we're pretty much assured of not finding any more, outside of a very improbable freak weather event that rains down lost BBC film cans...

And until and unless the effort of looking is too great an investment or too low a prospect of bringing a return, I'd say the hunters will continue the search.

A healthy mix of realism and optimism goes a long way, certainly further than a self-fulfilling prophecy to just not look at all...

[Charles Daniels]

Every time something turns up I think "Right. That's it then."

And thankfully I've always been wrong

[Richard Tipple]

I'm of the opinion there are a lot more still to come to light. Keep the faith!

[Crawford.P]

Until it's proven that there cannot be at least one episode still out there I will keep looking and hoping for futher finds. I honestly don't mind what is found at this point as long as it brings that number closer to 1.