ITV Regional Variations.

[Paul Watkins]

I've often wondered about the various programmes that were shown on the ITV network at different times and days. (in the 60's & 70's)

Can anyone enlighten me to the process here.

I assume (maybe wrongly) that in order for another ITV region to show a programme at a different time/day to the Main network they would have had to have had a 'duplicate' copy of a programme ?

If so, what happened to the mulitple copies that the regions had?, were they destroyed or kept?

[Deleted]

It's a good question! Often the regions would record a copy of the programme "down the line" from the maker, as it were, to be shown whenever. It does mean that there was often more than just one copy of a programme existing though (in addition to the one held by the company that made it), although I expect many were taped onto a re-useable master and wiped over many times again. It does increase the chance of X missing programme existing though - albeit only slightly!

[ashleywood]

I've often wondered too ! Ready Steady Go for example was shown on different days and/or at different times in different regions often in an edited down format. Discs a gogo was another shown on different days in different regions. Probably all wiped/re-used but you never know.

[Deleted]

Was RSG shown in an edited format? As I understood it, the programme was tapped into by certain regions at a midway point minus opening titles (being only in a half hour slot, rather than the full 50 minutes). That is, regions that were transmitting it as it went out. This information could be wrong though as it's a long time ago and details on Rediffusion practices are often lost to the mists of time. Other regions showing it in a different time-slot may have edited it down although it wasn't easy to make those kind of edits back then.

It would be interesting to have clear information on this as it's something which I've often wondered about.

[Ray Langstone (was saintsray)]

Supersonic was certainly transmitted at various times. This explains several date anomalies in lists.

[Ken Griffin]

Jan 7, 2013 16:38:20 GMT Paul Watkins said:

Can anyone enlighten me to the process here.

There wasn't a fixed process as such - it was largely dependent on circumstances, especially during the 1960s.

Up until 1968, smaller ITV stations didn't have full access to the lines network - the ITA provided them with one-way connections which could only receive programmes (due to penny pinching). They also didn't have much access to VTR facilities - some had only two VTRs - which meant that recording for later playback could be difficult.

When recording was impossible, a larger station (generally one which was also opting out) would record the programme as it went out onto a temporary tape and then subsequently play it down the line to the smaller regions which had opted out. For example, STV regularly did this for UTV in the late 1960s.

For part-networked programmes from smaller stations, the system was more complex and there were often multiple copies in circulation.

When Roger Whittaker did his early series for UTV, the programmes were screened throughout Britain even though the station was incapable of playing out to the network. The various regions involved also screened them in differing slots.

What happened in that case was that UTV sent two copies of each programme to Britain for national playout. One copy went to ATV, who serviced themselves and a couple of English regions while the second went to Granada who played it out for Grampian, Border and various other Northern regions. Meanwhile, UTV broadcast them locally using another copy.

By the 1970s, things had become simpler as everyone had two-way connections and more VTR equipment.

[Paul Watkins]

Thanks for that Ken.
It would seem probable then that most if not all copies were recorded over with the next programme that was distributed.

[David King]

Jan 7, 2013 16:38:20 GMT Paul Watkins said:

I've often wondered about the various programmes that were shown on the ITV network at different times and days. (in the 60's & 70's)

Can anyone enlighten me to the process here.

I assume (maybe wrongly) that in order for another ITV region to show a programme at a different time/day to the Main network they would have had to have had a 'duplicate' copy of a programme ?

If so, what happened to the mulitple copies that the regions had?, were they destroyed or kept?

Sorry, if this is a bit wordy and "off topic" but since the question was asked.......

Having worked for Southern VT in the late 70s and beyond, I can tell you that there were a variety of methods of distributing programmes to the other ITV companies.

Firstly, a programme to the whole network would usually be taken locally by the originating company and also fed to the rest of the network. Each company would either have their incoming feed switched directly to the originator or the programme would be fed via another company, usually the nominated contractor (either Thames or LWT). So, in this case an incoming feed to Thames or LWT would be switched to the originator and the rest of the network would be switched to Thames or LWT. Occasionally, the originator might take a feed back of its programme, (or part of) from network, where, say, the nominated contractor was going to "bolt-on", say a promo, to the end of the programme.
(BTW, there were complications when feeding directly from the originating company in that, once switched, each receiving company was isolated from the nominated contractor and the ability to take emergency programming such as news flashes during the up coming programme. To get round this there was a requirement that the originating company had to have the nominated contractor or ITN fed to its incoming feed so that, if necessary, the programme could be interrupted and a news flash on-passed to the rest of the network.)
This arrangement could also work in the same way for part network transmissions where not all the companies were taking the programme.

Secondly, a programme could be played out to others, where the originator was not itself transmitting it at the same time. This was generally done from the VTR department with the VTR routed to the outgoing line and with those companies requiring it, switched to the originator. The same conditions applied for emergency programming. The programme parts would be cued up and rolled, usually, from a 10 sec count on the VTR clock and the VTR would be rolled at predetermined times on the station clock or by a roll command from a receiving company on a 4-wire circuit (or standby telephone).

Thirdly, a playout of the programme could be made to one or more companies requiring it, ahead of transmission at a pre determined time. In this case the receiving company or companies would be switched to the originator, similar to the above but record the incoming feed. Usually a full VTR clock would be played out with maybe off tape or station bars and tone as line up. It would then be played out locally when required.

Fourthly, a dub copy, or copies of the programme could be made and sent ahead of transmission to those companies requiring it. These now are obviously a source of interest for missing programmes etc. but mostly they were returned to the originating company and reused.

The latter two were often used when companies wanted some flexibility to transmit the programme locally or where there were insufficient circuits to allow the passage of the programme. (Certainly, in the 70s and early 80s, each company, may have only had one, or maybe two, for the larger ones, networking local ends to the local BT switching centre and for some only a single circuit to the BT Tower in London (or two up and down country between London-Birmingham-Manchester-Carlisle). So, circuits could be in short supply particularly, if the network companies had various different splits of programming between them and the requirement to always have a direct or indirect route for emergency programmes.

[Ray Langstone (was saintsray)]

Not off-topic at all David, and thank you!

[Paul Watkins]

Yes thanks for sharing that David

[martinwills]

my first post from a long term lurker.

I know from the very varied showings of Captain Scarlet in ITV regions, that many different versions of the same episode exist in the original ITV copies, although most have now been made standard . Point 783 exists in at least 3 formats of opening titles, and could have 2 closing ones. For these to have survived into the 1990s in ITV regions. shows that various regional copies of other programs could have survived. The Night Network run in 1988 is when i made a note of the variation on the 32 episodes.

hope this isnt too off topic from the OP

[brianfretwell]

Of course Captain Scarlet was a film production with many prints made and the versions could have been returned export ones. The various title card variations episodes on the Network "Adventures of Robin Hood" show this, I wonder if that series would have survived if those sorts of prints hadn't turned up.

[John Green]

Yep.I've been working my way through all 118 episodes of Robin Hood.Imagine my surprise when the first French opening- and end-titles (complete with chanson) came on.