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Post by Paul Watkins on Jan 5, 2013 14:22:44 GMT
I've finally got round to putting together an online list of what survives of TOTP in audio only. This is very much a work in progress and i'd welcome contributions here if anyone has shows or information about shows that are still existing. homepage.ntlworld.com/e.watkins/musictv/totpaudio.htm |
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Post by Chris Dabbs on Jan 5, 2013 17:28:30 GMT
Hi, Paul. Nice work. I'd like to draw your attention to the old BBC TOTP2 which has real audio clips of 29/8/74. www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/trivia/lost/ATB Chris I've finally got round to putting together an online list of what survives of TOTP in audio only. This is very much a work in progress and i'd welcome contributions here if anyone has shows or information about shows that are still existing. homepage.ntlworld.com/e.watkins/musictv/totpaudio.htm |
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Post by markg on Jan 5, 2013 20:33:50 GMT
Blimey, RealAudio format. Of Jimmy Savile!
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Post by dennywilson on Jan 5, 2013 22:00:22 GMT
Blimey, RealAudio format. Of Jimmy Savile! How did they miss this?  |
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Post by nicadare on Jan 5, 2013 22:25:05 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/trivia/lost/Lame excuses for wiping the archive. If the BBC had management with brains all tapes would of been transferred onto 35mm and then degaussed/recorded over.
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Post by Chris Dabbs on Jan 5, 2013 22:35:16 GMT
I'd like to know where the audio is now, at the BBC, 11 years on? www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/trivia/lost/Lame excuses for wiping the archive. If the BBC had management with brains all tapes would of been transferred onto 35mm and then degaussed/recorded over. |
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Post by Larry Dutch on Jan 6, 2013 14:35:03 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/trivia/lost/Lame excuses for wiping the archive. If the BBC had management with brains all tapes would of been transferred onto 35mm and then degaussed/recorded over. I agree with your sentiment but that suggestion is based on present day hindsight, not reality. Can you name a commercial archive/tape library that transferred 2" videotape to 35mm for long term archival storage ever anywhere? What you suggest requires lots of money to create new negatives, probably interpositives as well to make sure the negs looked good. Then you'd need separate full coat magnetic film for the soundtracks done separately. That's several steps first just to then get a 35mm print made. Multiply that by the amount of programs produced inhouse and...it's just not remotely feasible. Making knock off B&W 16mm prints - sure (though quality would be heavily compromised) but 35mm? It would be simpler and cheaper just to retain the original 2" (which we all agree the Beeb should have done) but there you go. |
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Post by Dale Rumbold on Jan 6, 2013 19:36:01 GMT
Somewhere on here is the thread where I told Ray Langstone the audio clips I had from 1974/5. I don't have whole shows, but some missing performances, all on cassette (except a couple on very poor quality reel-to-reel : like this : www.clearwhitelight.co.uk/totp/dlt.mp3 ) |
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Post by David smothers on Jan 7, 2013 7:47:58 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/trivia/lost/Lame excuses for wiping the archive. If the BBC had management with brains all tapes would of been transferred onto 35mm and then degaussed/recorded over. I agree with your sentiment but that suggestion is based on present day hindsight, not reality. Can you name a commercial archive/tape library that transferred 2" videotape to 35mm for long term archival storage ever anywhere? What you suggest requires lots of money to create new negatives, probably interpositives as well to make sure the negs looked good. Then you'd need separate full coat magnetic film for the soundtracks done separately. That's several steps first just to then get a 35mm print made. Multiply that by the amount of programs produced inhouse and...it's just not remotely feasible. Making knock off B&W 16mm prints - sure (though quality would be heavily compromised) but 35mm? It would be simpler and cheaper just to retain the original 2" (which we all agree the Beeb should have done) but there you go. It's just the BEEB being cheap. Here in america, the entire run of 2" videotape exists of The Young And The Restless from 1973. A daytime soap opera with thousands of episodes, and they managed to save THEIR tapes. |
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Post by Rob Moss on Jan 7, 2013 9:56:40 GMT
It's just the BEEB being cheap. Here in america, the entire run of 2" videotape exists of The Young And The Restless from 1973. A daytime soap opera with thousands of episodes, and they managed to save THEIR tapes. You're comparing chalk and cheese here. Firstly, a commercial station, funded by advertising versus a public corporation funded by the licence fee. Far more pressure on the BBC to be seen to be spending the public's money wisely on future output, not on shows that have already been broadcast. Secondly, the future exploitation of TYatR was much greater - the programmes were made for syndication, whereas much of the BBC's output was made for one showing, and any further sales or repeats had to be negotiated and paid for. Don't forget, the unions in the UK were very powerful and could limit the amount of use that could be made of archive material, so it tended to be used once and then forgotten about. So in short, there was much more incentive in the US to keep and exploit material, hence much being destroyed over here for not having any perceived value. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 11:17:58 GMT
My own view is somewhere between David and Rob! It's a bit simplistic to compare US and UK situations exactly in that way. However, a lot more thought should have been given to what was considered to be worth archiving here (both for posterity and for re-use, although little consideration was given to the former) as TV is and always has been an important medium. Although the BBC claimed it did keep the "important" stuff whenever asked, it was a total lottery right up to the beginning of the '80s, with little rhyme or reason as to what managed to survive. It's staggering so much is still around from the '60s and early '70s as it's mostly been either down to fluke, dedicated individuals or retrieved sales copies!
But this is an old chestnut. You'll find plenty of threads on the forums here, David, discussing all the pros and cons of the situation with a fine tooth comb! Incidentally, there is a fair bit of US TV missing too although not proportionately as much as with the BBC here (the ITV companies have been generally a bit better, excepting those that lost their franchises early on) ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 11:41:52 GMT
Once again, whilst it is understandable and justifiable that there is much criticism of how the BBC treated it's archive, as Laurence also points out subtly, the BBC were far from alone. For instance, Granada seem to be one of the better archived ITV companies but that still doesn't excuse them from the shoddy way they treated their own pop programmes such as 45, Lift Off With Ayshea and various others from over the years - they kept every edition of the dreaded Corrie but can we see Billy J.Kramer hosting an early "Lift Off"? Some early live TV appearances by The Beatles or The Hollies? Nope - they decimated a large chunk of their 60's and early to mid 70's pop TV archive as well, so it wasn't just the BBC who viewed archiving it's pop TV output with much thought or care. Of course Granada did retain some gems for which we're all thankful, but a huge amount remains lost unlikely to ever be seen or found.
American TV is far from perfect either - most of the pre 1970's editions of "American Bandstand" were junked as discussed in another thread here and I imagine most TV companies Worldwide have junked or lost vintage materials over the decades. What about Japanese TV? We've read many times over the years of acts going over there guesting on shows or having live concerts broadcast, but we've seen pitifully little from there suggesting they too weren't keeping complete archives either.
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Post by Richard Marple on Jan 7, 2013 13:25:12 GMT
A lot of the early years of the Tonight Show have been lost, well into Johnny Carson's time as host.
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Post by Rob Moss on Jan 7, 2013 14:20:54 GMT
Presumably it would have been considered less commercially exploitable..? Sadly, that's what a lot of it came down to...
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Post by alexbenjamin on Jan 9, 2013 10:16:47 GMT
Hi,
Wonderful results till sofar. Great work. Is there any chance to pick up the audio of the Stones performances of It's all over now (8-7-1964), The last time, Get of off my cloud, Satisfaction (25-12-1965) and 19th nervous breakdown (10-2-1966). Are they real live, live vocals with prerecorded backingtrack or maybe playbacks of the official released tracks?
On a Dog n Cat Records (DAC 64) 2cd bootleg, Animal Duds, of a few years ago the second disc has a lot of audio of the Ready SteadyGo shows, incl. some unknown registrations, as of What a shame of Jan. 15 1965.
Alex.
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