Animation Questions

[moodm]

Hi,

I wanted to get some opinions on animation. This may have been asked before but I can't find it if it has.

Is the expensive part of animation matching each frame to the original broadcast as close as possible based on the telesnaps available?

I ask because I wonder what the possibility would be in the future of animating stories which have no remaining episodes in a similar way to Dreamland or The Infinite Quest (which one would assume was infinitely cheaper). Just having the action that matches the soundtrack?

For stories with episodes in tact I don't think it would work at all.

Cheers!

[felixdembinski]

I don't know much about animation, but I would of thought that animating from telesnaps and animating from story boards would cost about the same.

[John F Brayshaw]

I personally believe the last 106 eps that haven't been found and already animated should be animated and with the telesnaps and story boards to get us the closest thing to what was lost.

[George D]

im really surprised that a company never asked the beeb to buy the rights to make an animated syndicated package of the harntells/troughtons. Combining the profits from syndication as well as dvds could make the concept more profitable.

[dennywilson]

May 20, 2012 4:14:37 GMT George D said:

im really surprised that a company never asked the beeb to buy the rights to make an animated syndicated package of the harntells/troughtons. Combining the profits from syndication as well as dvds could make the concept more profitable.

But to work, all the episodes of the series would have to be animated, not just the missing ones of stories with orphaned episodes.

[John Wall]

May 20, 2012 9:48:25 GMT dennywilson said:

May 20, 2012 4:14:37 GMT George D said:

im really surprised that a company never asked the beeb to buy the rights to make an animated syndicated package of the harntells/troughtons. Combining the profits from syndication as well as dvds could make the concept more profitable.

But to work, all the episodes of the series would have to be animated, not just the missing ones of stories with orphaned episodes.

Animation can be expensive. You'd be trying to recreate something for which the sound exists and some visual material (stills) may well exist and with which it would be compared. If it was an "earner" I'm sure Dan Hall would be doing it.

[George D]

When you think about it, every day animated series are shown on television where they have to create both the soundtrack and the videos. Fortunately, the soundtrack is already done so the cost would be much less. I agree that they would have to do all the episodes in the stories, however the stories that were complete already could be skipped and they could focus on the stories with the most episodes missing.

A lot of times there are good ideas which are not explored because the person isnt interested in it or they never thought of it. BBC production and the BBC dvd dept are two different areas where Dans interest might only be increasing the profit in his arena. I dont know how much input the dvd area has in the production of shows aired on the network. In america, many producers look at the whole package of marketing before making a product, but im not sure if the networks are merely concerned with the profit that comes from the on air broadcasting and the package as a whole.

[Rob Moss]

What you fail to consider is that even if all the Hartnell and Troughton episodes were animated in full colour, widescreen, or even 3D, they are only ever going to sound like the slow paced programmes that they were. If you wanted to produce an animated series of Hartnell and Troughton for a modern audience, you'd have to rerecord the soundtracks, probably in Dolby Surround, and seriously tighten the pacing up. If you're not prepared to do this, then the product won't work for a modern audience, and if it doesn't work for a modern audience, then you can forget syndication.

The bottom line is that animating the 60s episodes to the original soundtrack is a niche project, and you really are better off accepting that, creating 4:3 greyscale pictures as faithful to the original as possible, and at least keeping the fans happy, because aiming it at a mainstream audience is probably not going to be very worthwhile.

[George D]

My initial thought was that we could piggyback off the success of the new series, but you may be right that its not what younger people are used to. Its unfortunate that the points you make are the exact things I dont like about the new series. Sometimes slowing things down allows greater character development and builds suspense without sacrificing action. . If they couldnt get into it, its unfortunate as that slower reflective pace has a lot of value.

In my innocence, I tend to forget about the radical changes occuring among the youth of today. I read in the paper this week that in NJ the young people are having wild music/dance/drug/immorality parties at a few of the stadiums. As I hear about that, it overwhelms me the change we're seeing in our society, which I dont believe is for the better. I remember listening to a Georgie Jessel interview from the 50s or 60s where he proclaimed that the rock music was a fad that would fade and the standards would still remain.. It appears that the opposite has occurred.

[Rob Moss]

Indeed, it's sad but true that modern television audiences are incapable of appreciating something with the pace and production values of 60s (and 70s and 80s) Who. This of course is why Tennant and Smith are on constant loop on [whatever UK Gold calls itself these days] and Pertwee and Baker are nowhere to be seen. It s also why reversioning classic Who episodes for a modern audience is going to be met with limited success at best.

[John Wall]

Look at the extras on "The Invasion", particularly where Terrence Dicks comments on the length of the story and how it would have been better as a six or, even, four parter. I don't think that the Cybermen appear until about Part 3 !

[George D]

In not sure how we segued into the Invasion, however in my mind, i view it as two stories.. The first four parts is a story with the doctor against an early Bill Gates type character.. The remaining 4 is a story with Vaughn and the cyberman against the doctor.

I personally feel that if one views Vaughn as the villian rather than the cyberman (who dont even talk in the story) it makes it more enjoyable and I really think Stoney did an excellent job playing vaughn.. my father loves the coolness of the character.

I think we all agree that Troughtons last season got messed up a little bit with padding, however Im not disappointed at Douglas Camfield's job in the story. Like inferno, it holds its own.. even with two reconstructions. Might have preferred regular music over the electronic, but I can see it appropriate for a technology/machine story. I think the ending was rather rushed and would have preferred a longer climax. Six might have been tighter but I think 4 wouldnt have done it justice.

[Rob Moss]

The Invasion doesn't have an electronic score - its all guitars, flutes and organs, IIRC.

[Greg H]

May 19, 2012 7:57:55 GMT @moodm said:

Hi,

I wanted to get some opinions on animation. This may have been asked before but I can't find it if it has.

Is the expensive part of animation matching each frame to the original broadcast as close as possible based on the telesnaps available?

I ask because I wonder what the possibility would be in the future of animating stories which have no remaining episodes in a similar way to Dreamland or The Infinite Quest (which one would assume was infinitely cheaper). Just having the action that matches the soundtrack?

For stories with episodes in tact I don't think it would work at all.

Cheers!

Its as much about time as anything else. If a fan decides to make an animation the 2D approach would probably be Flash, and the somewhat more time consuming 3D approach would require 3D studio MAX or maya, both high end packages and some art skill required realisticaly speaking.
I think animations are best left to the fans tbh, they don't really have that much commercial potential and fans will probably grow old and grey before a substantial number of them are made by the BBC.