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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Apr 19, 2012 4:12:21 GMT
I am not sure if this topic has been discussed before, but what about the metal reels and cans themselves? I've noticed from viewing 16mm films for sale on eBay that the reels and cans are all different in their own designs. The "Land of Fear" episode that recently went up was wrapped around a unique silver colored reel that had large and small circles as a design. (Look at one of the last two images.) www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16mm-B-W-A-land-fear-DR-WHO-1964-REVISED-/120873657458?pt=UK_DVD_Film_TV_OtherFormats_GL&hash=item1c24a1a472What might a reel or a can's design say about the film it contains? If I were to find an unmarked reel that looked exactly like the one "Land of Fear" was wrapped around, could I say that it might be a European/British film? Or would the look of a reel not matter at all in what the contents of the film would be? |
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Post by George D on Apr 19, 2012 5:01:56 GMT
Someone more educated than me might have a different answer. But my thoughts is not to get caught up on the type of can (which could vary) instead of looking at whats on the film.
I would think a cell phone with internet access would allow you to do a search for various titles you may find and get a feel exactly what they are.
Keep in mind that if youre finding collections of b/w tv shows that are not the normal american syndicated material, then its worth going over very carefully.
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Post by Ash Stewart on Apr 19, 2012 11:35:18 GMT
I don't think worrying about the reel is worthwhile at all; IIRC, films at the BBC were stored wound around small central hubs, not on full reels at all. The thing I recall is that when the films were junked, these hubs were knocked out and the film tossed in the skip.
So, the reels like the one on the eBay auction will be one the current (or previous) owner has put the film on for projection. Which is why they differ.
An un-labelled reel could contain anything!
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Apr 19, 2012 14:52:10 GMT
I don't think worrying about the reel is worthwhile at all; IIRC, films at the BBC were stored wound around small central hubs, not on full reels at all. The thing I recall is that when the films were junked, these hubs were knocked out and the film tossed in the skip. So, the reels like the one on the eBay auction will be one the current (or previous) owner has put the film on for projection. Which is why they differ. An un-labelled reel could contain anything! That actually clarifies some of the history of junking for me. Thanks  I suppose if some of these were collected in batches ... say that some seller got his hands on a bunch of prints about to be junked by an overseas station. He would've put them all on similar looking reels that he bought. But aside from that farfetched possibility I won't stress myself over it. I recently saw a reel exactly like the Land of Fear, so it got me wondering ... |
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Post by Steven Sigel on Apr 19, 2012 15:11:12 GMT
I wouldn't read anything into the reels that a film is on. It *might* be on original reels (the reel that "Land of Fear" was on was indeed one of the reel types that the BBC used at the time, but it's equally likely that prints were swapped back and forth onto various reels over their lifetime.
I don't know for sure, but I doubt that enterprises sent prints to TV stations on cores - it's one thing for an archive to keep prints that way, but I doubt stations (Who want to easily run the prints) would want them on cores... I know that the vast majority of prints I've acquired from TV stations or distributors have been on reels.
And as for collectors - many collectors don't care about "original reels" - a reel is a reel. So that when I run a print, I don't always rewind it onto the same reels (in fact rarely do)...
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Apr 19, 2012 17:35:27 GMT
And as for collectors - many collectors don't care about "original reels" - a reel is a reel. So that when I run a print, I don't always rewind it onto the same reels (in fact rarely do)... I certainly wouldn't care about original reels.  I was just wondering if a reel-type could be any sort of indicator as to what a mystery reel might be. I finally found out what was on that reel that looked the same as the Land of Fear. Turned out to be an educational film.  |
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Post by Tim Disney on Apr 19, 2012 18:23:12 GMT
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Post by Steven Sigel on Apr 19, 2012 18:32:19 GMT
@tim - BBC used the Tuscan reels (my favourite reels) mainly in the 80s IIRC (possibly late 70s as well) -- so unlikely that you would find any missing material on those reels (unless someone moved them of course -- almost my entire collection of Dr. Who prints is on Tuscan reels, so I can see others using the same thing). They were also commonly used in Australia - under the name "Australian reel company" I believe.
BBC also used those strange orange Cecolite reels at the same time.
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Post by Tim Disney on Apr 19, 2012 23:41:57 GMT
BBC also used those strange orange Cecolite reels at the same time. Yes, they are an odd choice, although I think I quite like them, as they seem pretty robust. I've received a few warped Tuscan spools and that's put me off them in the past, although they're still better than most. I have a couple of BBC 60s programmes on those Cecolite reels. As regards Tuscan, certainly used heavily by the BBC and present on 60s material returned from New Zealand. I also had an episode of The Avengers that was ex TVNZ and screened around 1985 that was on a Tuscan reel (or Australian Reel Company) too. And there was us both saying that a reel is just a reel! I suppose subconsciously, we all have our favourites. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 20, 2012 0:23:18 GMT
The films that were dumped by the NZBC in 1973 were in metal cans, plastic Tuscan cans, or those cardboard square "pizza boxes".
I have a metal film can which once had an episode of "Flipper" in it, and part of its moulding is an embossed stamp say CBS TELEVISION, which indicates that the film was shipped in a can from the distributor.
In response to SteveS's above comment, I wonder whether BBC Enterprises, London sent shipments of films on cores to BBC Sydney, where they were fed onto reels and placed in cans for distribution to the TV stations they were agents for. That would certainly seem to have been the case with The Moonbase ep 3, the can for which was manufactured in Australia.
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Post by Tim Disney on Apr 20, 2012 10:46:52 GMT
I wonder whether BBC Enterprises, London sent shipments of films on cores to BBC Sydney, where they were fed onto reels and placed in cans for distribution to the TV stations they were agents for. That would certainly seem to have been the case with The Moonbase ep 3, the can for which was manufactured in Australia. Maybe Enterprises sent a set of duplicate negatives out to Sydney and positives were struck and wound on to reels in a lab in Australia as and when required? In terms of U.S programme distributors, I think a lot of stuff was shipped out on reels. I have a few plastic reels with 20th Century Fox Television, MCA, Viacom etc all stamped on them. They used to use these really nice plastic cases for bicycling the prints through the post from one station to another that have four plastic screws that lock the case lid down and a proper little plastic window for placing the address inside. And small square foam sheets on the inside as packing. I assume the colour usually matched the reel, so you have red 20th Century Fox cases, yellow for Viacom / Screen Gems etc. Steven will know the American way of doing things much better than I. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Apr 20, 2012 19:15:59 GMT
Maybe Enterprises sent a set of duplicate negatives out to Sydney and positives were struck and wound on to reels in a lab in Australia as and when required? That thought has previously been considered, but which has since been dismissed by those in the know. BBC Sydney did not receive negatives and make copies. |
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Apr 20, 2012 22:20:56 GMT
Some information:
In the early 1960's (1962-1963 and possibly a little earlier and slightly later) the BBC would wind the film onto the steel reels we see 'A Land of Fear' on, then whoever did it would write the recording number in the centre of the can lid. The film would be sent back to Enterprises and they would type (or write up) a label with the info on and stick it over the pen mark.
I am certain that if the remains of the label on 'A Land of Fear' was removed, the permanent marker seen beneath it in the photo's would correspond to the correct film recorder number for the episode.
This was what was on 'The Sky at Night' film and an episode of 'Steptoe and Son' I recently assessed. The same type of cans were used. It's why I'm almost certain this ep is an original print.
Paul
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Post by John Wall on Apr 20, 2012 23:00:00 GMT
Tell us about the Steptoe please ? It all exists but was this a better copy of anything ?
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Apr 21, 2012 0:03:28 GMT
Tell us about the Steptoe please ? It all exists but was this a better copy of anything ? It was the can and reel for 'The Siege of Steptoe St.' but although the ident leader was intact, the film was missing... |
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I was just wondering if a reel-type could be any sort of indicator as to what a mystery reel might be. I finally found out what was on that reel that looked the same as the Land of Fear.
