|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 26, 2012 14:32:10 GMT
I know the words ad and nauseam are common on this forum but of all the missing episodes the most wanted and the one with the most conjecture and confusing junking history must be the 10th Planet episode 4.I've followed it's history for 30 years but it must be the one with least satisfying wiping story.As far as I've read it was borrowed by the Blue Peter production unit for Dr Who's 10th anniversary and never returned,but was still being offered by BBC enterprises for sale in the mid 70's but after this it goes off the radar and it's eventual demise has been glossed over.If it was never returned but was still being offered for sale,were ther TWO copies floating around,one missing and one for sale? Sorry,I'm doing this from memory so forgive me if I've got my facts wrong!Of all of the remaining missing episodes I think this one is still out there...
|
|
|
|
Post by Charles Daniels on Feb 26, 2012 14:36:09 GMT
I know the words ad and nauseam are common on this forum but of all the missing episodes the most wanted and the one with the most conjecture and confusing junking history must be the 10th Planet episode 4.I've followed it's history for 30 years but it must be the one with least satisfying wiping story.As far as I've read it was borrowed by the Blue Peter production unit for Dr Who's 10th anniversary and never returned, No, that was The Traitors. DMP4. |
|
|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 26, 2012 15:08:19 GMT
But in WIPED it does mention TP4 and Blue Peter and how the latter borrowed it,in fact there's a whole paragraph on it which says it's a fan myth that it was never returned.It just seems strange that it's still available to buy in 1974 but isn't completely junked thereafter.The 10th planet episodes 1-3 are viewing prints apparently and are not 'returns'.Were the episodes for sale in 1974 duplicates which were all completely destroyed just leaving the 3 prints that we have now and a 'missing' episode 4...?
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 26, 2012 16:18:33 GMT
BBC Enterprises still had their master 16mm negatives for the story. Once the rights expired and the story was no longer available for overseas sale, they would have then been destroyed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Charles Daniels on Feb 26, 2012 16:48:11 GMT
Of all of the remaining missing episodes I think this one is still out there... It doesn't seem to work that way though. Marco Polo had more prints than any other story (I think) People have said The Traitors is likely to return. But have there ever been posts like "I'm sure the most likely to return are Airlock and Underwater Menace 2."? It seems totally random what actually gets recovered. |
|
|
|
Post by Jaspal Cheema on Feb 26, 2012 16:49:45 GMT
Sorry to bang on about this Richard and at the end of the day it's still missing( ! ),but why make telerecordings of just the 1st 3 episodes?If the BBC weren't too bothered about the programme or were doing some sort of engineering exercise,then why just make 3 recordings?Why not the 4th episode?And then why not junk all 4?And to make this even more like an episode of Columbo,in WIPED it states that Enterprises never held an index card for episode 4-NEVER held it or just don't hold one now?Could that have been taken along with the episode so as to prevent a paper trail?
|
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Feb 26, 2012 16:55:13 GMT
Of all of the remaining missing episodes I think this one is still out there... It doesn't seem to work that way though. Marco Polo had more prints than any other story (I think) Not necessarily. A lot of research has been undertaken into the system of bicycling prints between foreign broadcasters and it is clear that several overseas sales could be serviced by a single print. Marco Polo was sold to a lot of countries but it's unlikely that a separate print was struck for each. |
|
|
|
Post by Charles Daniels on Feb 26, 2012 17:01:12 GMT
It doesn't seem to work that way though. Marco Polo had more prints than any other story (I think) Not necessarily. A lot of research has been undertaken into the system of bicycling prints between foreign broadcasters and it is clear that several overseas sales could be serviced by a single print. Marco Polo was sold to a lot of countries but it's unlikely that a separate print was struck for each. Well exactly. But I think there doesn't seem to be a provable link of "There were three times more copies of story X compared to story Y. So therefore story X is three times more likely to turn up than story Y." That makes sense in the "many copies keeps stuff safe" theory of backing things up. But in real life, I don't think it's panned out that way. |
|
|
|
Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 26, 2012 17:36:45 GMT
Sorry to bang on about this Richard and at the end of the day it's still missing( ! ),but why make telerecordings of just the 1st 3 episodes? They didn't. They would have had all four. The film print of Episode 4 made its way over to the editing suite to be transferred over for Blue Peter and then was sent back afterwards. For some reason, it just didn't end up getting connected back to the other three. Probably the can was amongst many others in transit and ended up being discarded at some point. Although The Tenth Planet was still on the books as being potentially up for sale, no one was buying it at that point, so there probably wasn't any panic about relocating it with the others. The point is that Enterprise still had the telerecording negatives for all four episode, so they could always strike new prints should they be needed. So regardless of what happened to the print that Blue Peter accessed, the episode still existed at that time as the negative was still held at Villers Road. |
|
|
|
Post by Richard Molesworth on Feb 26, 2012 20:03:29 GMT
...in WIPED it states that Enterprises never held an index card for episode 4-NEVER held it or just don't hold one now?Could that have been taken along with the episode so as to prevent a paper trail? Sorry, but it doens't say that at all in 'WIPED!' The only episode that didn't have an index card at Enterprises is 'Masterplan' 7. At the film library, the only episode that DID have an index card but was actually missing was 'Masterplan' 4. Which was as a result of 'Blue Peter' borrowing the episode. Nothing at all to do with 'Tenth Planet', part 4 or otherwise. Regards, Richard |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Phipps on Feb 26, 2012 22:00:25 GMT
Marco Polo was sold to a lot of countries but it's unlikely that a separate print was struck for each. The only time would be if a scheduling conflict occurred or if the time taken to send a film print from say New Zealand to Nigeria would take longer than sending a fresh print from the BBC straight to Nigeria. |
|
|
|
Post by Jon Preddle on Feb 26, 2012 22:35:27 GMT
Marco Polo was sold to a lot of countries but it's unlikely that a separate print was struck for each. The only time would be if a scheduling conflict occurred or if the time taken to send a film print from say New Zealand to Nigeria would take longer than sending a fresh print from the BBC straight to Nigeria. I've worked out that the minimum number of copies of Marco Polo needed to provide for all 21 countries pre-1967 is only eight. These were all Suppressed Field T/Rs. (And this is dependent on the bold assumption they were only ever bicycled within the same region (e.g. Africa,Caribbean, Asia)) Only Sierra Leone and Ethiopia are likely to have got (the same?) Stored Field T/Rs that were introduced into the system after 1967. (If indeed Marco did ever have Stored Fields made.) In all likelihood, the BBC destroyed all the Suppressed Field ones as and when they were returned, as they only wanted to keep Stored Fields. With all this in mind (all Suppressed destroyed, and only one (?) Stored set in circulation and no negatives) it's hardly surprising there are no copies of this serial in existence. |
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Feb 26, 2012 23:56:38 GMT
It looks like Jon has worked out, from first principles, the answer to a question I recently posed on a thread I started  Have you done similar calculations for other missing stories Jon ? If you have it's the sort of thing that should be consigned to paper - or pdf ! |
|
|
|
Post by Jon Preddle on Feb 27, 2012 0:56:14 GMT
It looks like Jon has worked out, from first principles, the answer to a question I recently posed on a thread I started Have you done similar calculations for other missing stories Jon ? If you have it's the sort of thing that should be consigned to paper - or pdf ! I have done the same for the other stories, yes. When I do "publish" it, it will be via my www.broadwcast.org website. |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Phipps on Feb 27, 2012 1:07:16 GMT
I have done the same for the other stories, yes. When I do "publish" it, it will be via my www.broadwcast.org website. How's the Australia stuff coming? Bit daunting I imagine... |
|
Have you done similar calculations for other missing stories Jon ? If you have it's the sort of thing that should be consigned to paper - or pdf !