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Post by tomreed on May 3, 2011 20:29:31 GMT
Hello,
I am new to this forum and it sure looks very interesting!
I have been researching Barry Manilow's early musical career and noted that there are quite a few Bette Midler television appearances that are missing. The most notables are Midler's Johnny Carson's Tonight Show appearences from August, 1970 through April, 1972.
According to the Johnny Carson estate, these episodes were wiped when the show moved to Los Angeles in May, 1972. Some fan's audio recordings of some of these episodes exists and I did see a FILM of Bette from a December 10, 1970 appearance at a local television library here. In addition, the Library Of Congress is supposed to have audio recordings of some (or all?) of these episodes on disc from the Armed Forces Network. I am unable to get to D. C. to check this out personally.
I was able to get copies of the original paperwork for most of these lost episodes from the Library Of Congress that came from the Carson estate. I am at a loss as to why this paperwork exists and the episodes don't!
If more information is needed, I can expand further, but I am hopeful someone on this forum can shed some light to these alleged "lost Johnny Carson / Bette Midler" episodes.
Many thanks,
Tom
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Post by Peter Stirling on May 3, 2011 21:55:10 GMT
Tom, speaking generally and from a British point of view. Its no surprise that while the paperwork is all present and correct, actually finding the episode is a whole different ball game.
I dont know how the US TV protocol works, but wiping a show recorded in the April just because you move the studio in the May seems a bit far fetched- first of all there is the legal problems, for example if say Bette Midler had said something about another person that the other person objected to, that show would be needed to defend Johnny Carson & Bette Midler.
Then of course there is all the syndication possibilities.
So maybe you should investigate further and lift some more stones on the claim that they were all wiped when they moved.
goodluck
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Post by tomreed on May 4, 2011 0:09:26 GMT
Hello Peter,
Many thanks for your posting.
The Johnny Carson estate has posted their archives online for viewing, but you must register to do so. I have and have been though it. Originally, they had the episode for November 17, 1972 but didn't have the episode for September 12, 1973 which I KNEW existed. They have since corrected this and now the September 12, 1973 episode is there. So I can see how the archives of some networks can be disorganized leading to shows "missing" when they are actually misfiled.
As for your comments about the shows being "wiped" I agree. The shows were syndicated and reran. (Though not lately!)
Film copies have to be out there somewhere.
As for the December 10, 1970 footage of Bette Midler I SAW, when I told the Johnny Carson estate about the fact I saw it, and where I saw it, they simply said "the show doesn't exists!" How do drill though such concrete? An interesting aside of that the library that has this footage has it filed under the wrong date - December 28, 1970 - where it would of languished until I found it and identified it.
The sad thing is that the archives don't work with the fans. They hire outsiders who know nothing (or very little) about the show (or shows) they have and make an even bigger mess!
I am sure the Armed Forces Network has a treasure trove of the missing materials, and not just what I am looking for, but how do you gain access to their archives?
Don't worry, I will turn over all the rocks I can, if you or anyone else have any suggestions where I can turn to, that would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Tom
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Post by Ken Griffin on May 4, 2011 20:00:09 GMT
You are probably aware of this but you should look into the UCLA Film and Television Archive. Their database indicates that they have at least 50 episodes of the Tonight Show from the pre-1972 period including a series of episodes from 1971 which appear to be held as early Philips domestic recordings.
The bad news is that they don't seem to have any facilities with which they can play them back - there's a note simply stating that they are unplayable on the archive's equipment.
Also, I wouldn't been too harsh on the level of disorganisation you are encountering in the various archives. It's pretty common especially as even the smallest of television archives often have thousands of reels of film and videotape. As a result, things can naturally go missing for periods of time if they are misfiled.
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,864
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Post by RWels on May 4, 2011 21:35:19 GMT
You are probably aware of this but you should look into the UCLA Film and Television Archive. Their database indicates that they have at least 50 episodes of the Tonight Show from the pre-1972 period including a series of episodes from 1971 which appear to be held as early Philips domestic recordings. The bad news is that they don't seem to have any facilities with which they can play them back - there's a note simply stating that they are unplayable on the archive's equipment. That must be reel to reel then - ldl1000 or el3400... it can be done, by those that still have the equipment. Possibly they would be interested if someone offered to have them transferred, but that is just a guess. |
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Post by tomreed on May 4, 2011 22:46:01 GMT
I have checked the UCLA archives - but nothing...
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Post by Peter Stirling on May 5, 2011 8:11:26 GMT
johnny Carson's Tonight show was shown in Australia - worth a look there maybe? As it probably went out on kinescope(telerecording) due to the different TV standards.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2011 8:40:00 GMT
That must be reel to reel then - ldl1000 or el3400... it can be done, by those that still have the equipment. Possibly they would be interested if someone offered to have them transferred, but that is just a guess. They seem to have stuff on a variety of formats including t/rs, 2" quads and other (semi-domestic) formats. |
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Post by tomreed on May 5, 2011 23:46:12 GMT
johnny Carson's Tonight show was shown in Australia - worth a look there maybe? As it probably went out on kinescope(telerecording) due to the different TV standards. Now that is interesting! Can you be more specific on where in Australia and in what archives these old Johnny Carson Shows with Bette Midler might be in? I have a contact there and would more then happy to follow up! |
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