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Post by William Martin on May 15, 2004 14:38:19 GMT
which tv stations or archives can we safley rule out, which if any havn't been contacted and which have but are still possibles?
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Post by Angus MacKay on May 15, 2004 17:52:31 GMT
I think Grampian can be def ruled out.
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Post by Bob on May 15, 2004 21:29:05 GMT
which tv stations or archives can we safley rule out, which if any havn't been contacted and which have but are still possibles? Are we talking just Dr Who here? I won't go off on one again, but isn't it a shame that a thousand people will enquire about Dr Who at an archive, but not any of the more important lost programmes... Anyway, regarding Dr Who, I believe all stations which bought copies of now-missing episodes have been contacted by the BBC (or representative). That's not to say that they all replied or, when they did, actually made a proper search first. But short of going into these station's archive yourself, which only a profesional archivist would have any hope of doing, the response to an enquiry is the best you can hope for. And you can hardly say 'Hello. I'm from the BBC. Can I have a wander around your archive because we don't believe you've catalgoued it properly/don't believe you made a thorough search for our missing programmes'. The only possibly exceptions - and there may not be any, I'm not 100% - are where the countries which once bought episodes are no longer in good diplomatic standing with the UK, making any official BBC enquiries somewhat difficult.
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Post by Lester on May 17, 2004 12:19:20 GMT
Bob... you hit the nail right on the head...I`ve always thought it was a political matter....but i dont want to start any big debate here....perhaps if things were a bit better out there....you`d probably see more material returned wtih less hassle......
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Post by William on May 17, 2004 16:38:06 GMT
...isn't it a shame that a thousand people will enquire about Dr Who at an archive, but not any of the more important lost programmes... . yes, it is and I would hope that anyone who does try this asks for british programs, after all if its dr who your after there may be a wrongly filed episode that you would only find if you were looking for basil bruh or something and you are right I am talking in general terms not just dr who
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Post by William on May 17, 2004 16:41:34 GMT
Bob... you hit the nail right on the head...I`ve always thought it was a political matter....but i dont want to start any big debate here....perhaps if things were a bit better out there....you`d probably see more material returned wtih less hassle...... on the same tack, what stations have returned nothing as the chances are they have something
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Post by Bob on May 17, 2004 23:00:44 GMT
on the same tack, what stations have returned nothing as the chances are they have something Yeah? Mindless optimism I'm afraid. The reason most stations that have never returned now-missing material (those who ever had any, that is) is because they followed the standard rules and either destroyed their copies after their rights to them expired, or returned them to the BBC (or whoever) for them to do it themselves.
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Post by the william on May 20, 2004 13:39:37 GMT
shame, still mindless optimism had its advantages ....... I think
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Post by lfbarfe on May 23, 2004 13:09:40 GMT
<i>Aggressive tone or not, Collie's right. A lot of people on this forum have to face the fact that an amateur investigator is only going to damage the hunt for episodes. Especially ones who regard viewing the contents of programme companies' archives as a divine right rather than a privilege. Being polite, professional and able to spell helps a great deal when it comes to being taken seriously.
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Post by David L White on May 24, 2004 7:18:39 GMT
Especially ones who regard viewing the contents of programme companies' archives as a divine right rather than a privilege. Being polite, professional and able to spell helps a great deal when it comes to being taken seriously. I can't believe that the BFI hasn't already approached most of the world's TV archives. Dick Fiddy would be the best man for the job, in my opinion, of contacting any countries that haven't been explored. And I'm talking about the whole of British Television, not just Doctor Who. ;D I just wanted to make that clear! David L. White
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Post by Dick Fiddy on May 24, 2004 16:33:32 GMT
I've been following this strand with keen interest, it raises a number of interesting points. Of course the overriding factor why there isn't an official band of episode-hunters constantly pestering overseas archives to check their holdings is money. No organisations (including the BFI) have freed up fiunds for such an enterprise. The few funds that have been made available by the BFI (who are themselves cash-strapped) have mostly been for me to follow up UK leads, or foreign leads that have been identified by overseas archive cataloguing their holdings on the internet. At the BBC such inquiries are made but usually by in-house enthusiasts off their own back. There are a number of probelms inherant with contacting foreign archives. Firstly some have a hostile initial response as they are fed up with inquiries of this nature by well meaning but persistent fans of individula shows (not just Dr Who - music fans are just as vociferous), secondly there is a hangover of distrust in case they will encounter legal problems if they are found to hold overseas material they should have returned or destroyed. Thirdly there is an ignorance as to what they hold - some archives have no idea they are holding foreign material, they assume the title refers to one of their own programmes (this is especially true of English language archives - if you have a can marked The Johnnie Ray show you would have to physically check to see if it was Canadian, British, Australian, Us etc). Very few archives have employees who can check every can. Fourthly actually getting through to the right person at an archive can be very tricky, not everyone has in depth knowledge of the holdings and many computer or listing systems haven't enough data to make it easy to look up. Fifthly overseas archives are often also run on a miniscule budget, there are few funds to allow people to spend a couple of days looking for obscure titles (which may of course be mis-labelled, unlabelled, in the wrong cans or filed under episode title rather than programme title). Add language difficulties into the mix and you can see where the problems multiply. Recently I have been trying to make headway with archives in Hong Kong but this is proving tricky. A help here is the international TV archivist group FIAT. Through FIAT it is possible to build up good relationships with the RIGHT PEOPLE in overseas archives who will then actively note any pertinent material that they do come across in their archives. I am regulalrly in contact with such colleagues who do occasionally unearth material. Although so far none has proved earth-shattering, the very fact that they are doing it is a bonus.
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Post by Dick Fiddy on May 24, 2004 16:43:39 GMT
I've been following this strand with keen interest, it raises a number of interesting points. Of course the overriding factor why there isn't an official band of episode-hunters constantly pestering overseas archives to check their holdings is money. No organisations (including the BFI) have freed up fiunds for such an enterprise. The few funds that have been made available by the BFI (who are themselves cash-strapped) have mostly been for me to follow up UK leads, or foreign leads that have been identified by overseas archives cataloguing their holdings on the internet. At the BBC such inquiries are made but usually by in-house enthusiasts off their own back. There are a number of probelms inherant with contacting foreign archives. Firstly some have a hostile initial response as they are fed up with inquiries of this nature by well meaning but persistent fans of individual shows (not just Dr Who - music fans are just as vociferous), secondly there is a hangover of distrust in case they will encounter legal problems if they are found to hold overseas material they should have returned or destroyed. Thirdly there is an ignorance as to what they hold - some archives have no idea they are holding foreign material, they may assume titles refer to one of their own programmes (this is especially true of English language archives - if you have a can marked say The Johnnie Ray show you would have to physically check to see if it was Canadian, British, Australian, Us etc). Very few archives have employees who can check every can or tape. Fourthly actually getting through to the right person at an archive can be very tricky, not everyone has in depth knowledge of the holdings and many computer or listing systems haven't enough data to make it easy to look up. Fifthly overseas archives are often also run on a miniscule budget, there are few funds to allow people to spend a couple of days looking for obscure titles (which may of course be mis-labelled, unlabelled, in the wrong cans or filed under episode title rather than programme title). Add language difficulties into the mix and you can see where the problems multiply. Recently I have been trying to make headway with archives in Hong Kong but this is proving tricky. A help here is the international TV archivist group FIAT. Through FIAT it is possible to build up good relationships with the RIGHT PEOPLE in overseas archives who will then actively note any pertinent material that they do come across. I am regulalrly in contact with such colleagues who do occasionally unearth material. Although so far none has proved earth-shattering, the very fact that they are doing it is a bonus. I'm positive a lot more UK material is around in foreign archives so of course this is a genuine area we should be searching. It's frustrating (and personally annoying) that there isn't a magic pot of money somewhere that would allow someone (me with any luck) to travel to foreign archives and personally sift through their holdings. In the meantime it's always worthwhile checking any listings that get posted on the net, any holdings catalogues that are printed, all the TV sales source books and any news items on foreign collections (especially takeovers which can lead to an overhaul of old archives - exactly what's happening at Carlton (Granada International now) and the ATV collection. In principle its understandable that fans - who think (sometimes with justification) that so little is being done officially - should decide to act unofficially. Its debatable whether such actions have done more harm than good. Forums like this should be a place where suggestions are made to enable the official archives to carry forward the case - but of course that's an 'ideal world' scenario.
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Post by Dick Fiddy on May 24, 2004 16:45:38 GMT
Sorry the previous message appears twice in part - no idea why that happened.
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Post by LESTER on May 25, 2004 10:19:34 GMT
Dick, read your post with great interest...you brought up some very true points, eg:-`Doing more harm than good`, i think, as you say, is the polite way to go about it will acheave good results, after all i can probably see why t.v companies get brassed off with with people useing the wrong approach, i hope you succeed in the Hong Kong investigation....very tricky as you say, do you think it possible to set up an individual body to finance archive serches?....just a thought....Keep up the good work!....
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Post by Lester on May 26, 2004 10:12:02 GMT
How about this for an idea?....Now that Mr grade is at the helm....perhaps someone could write to him requesting a complete and thorugh serch of the beeb archives..(WITHOUT SOUNDING "PIE-IN-THE-SKY"ish).useing the correct and polite approach....who knows....i gather hes not to keen on D.W.....but you never know...worth a try eh?.......
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