Australian Pertwee colour sales/recoveries

[Paul Smith]

I understand Australia didn't start colour TV broadcasts until 1975, so the early Pertwee episodes it purchased were b/w telerecordings. I've seen it said ABC only bought Season 11 on colour VT, yet in 1984 it turned up colour episodes of Frontier in Space (from Season 10, of course).

So does anyone know what colour episodes ABC bought? And was anything else returned with Frontier, or at any other time (Death to the Daleks 1?).

Cheers
Paul

[Daniel O'Brien]

So far as I know, the 'Frontier in Space' episodes are the only colour recoveries from ABC Australia.

'Death to the Daleks' 1 came back from Dubai (as I discovered only a week or so ago).

[Adrian Gregg]

I thought Death 1 came back from a UK fan? (Was it the ONLY recovery of a 2 inch Quad ever?)
as far as the abc goes we had "strip" showings of the pertwee's the entire 70's-mid-80's
and loads were TR's and some colour. I have off airs of the Abc annaoncer saying "the doctor will returen tormorow in COLOUR!" I taped these in 83 or so. but i had an idea that a few pertwee's came back via ABC? ( I mean 625 VT Ones) sea devils?

[LanceM]

As I recall reading that Death Of The Daleks was sent from Dubai back to the BBC ( not sure which format ). It arrived with a load of other BBC programs they had sent with the Death tape, it was discovered on the back dock of the BBC, and upon opening saw all the tapes, Death among them. Would guess that Dubai probably did an audit of their archive material finding these items that were not their's, and returned them to the copyright holder, as they probably assumed their rights had long since expired.

I remember the talk on the Frontier In Space ABC discovery a while ago here on this board, a lot of theories, thoughts, and comments were offered on the subject, however not much was learned as far as I can recall. It is possible that copy was a promo made for ABC TV to see if they wanted to purchase colour stories to air from Doctor Who, or keep with B/W as know that BBC Enterprises at the time were still offering B/W programs for export and screening. Remember that also the ABC censor clip finds, as well as Ep 4 of The Celestial Toymaker, the supposed ex-ABC print of a War Machines episode. Interesting that there seemed to be a bit of material that made its way into misfiling in the archives, or into the collector circuit. With more work, determination, and research I would hope that more material can be located from Australia be from official sources or collectors and fans. The climate issue though is what worries me, not good for old tapes, video reels, film prints at all unless properly stored. Makes you wonder what else will ( or will not ) emerge given time from Australia ?

Cheers, Lance.

[Steven Sigel]

Any recoveries from australia (or anywhere else) are going to be serendipitous -- everyplace obvious has been checked (and I'm sure a lot of no-so-obvious places too)...

There have been people looking for missing Dr. Who episodes for 30 years now -- which means that all the low hanging fruit has been plucked. I'm afraid that the chances of even one more episode turning up are depressingly low (not zero, but very low).

[Paul Smith]

I did search on here but couldn't find any mention of Frontier.

In line with what Lance mentions, I did wonder if it was sent to Australia as a promo/test to see if they wanted colour tapes -- if only because it had the Delaware theme on one episode, implying it wasn't a dupe of the final broadcast master, as it would presumably be for a normal purchase.

In fact, an episode of Carnival of Monsters had the Delaware theme on too, so did that come back from Australia at some point? (With Frontier?) Just checked, and Mark Ayres' history of the Who theme says: "It [the Delaware theme] survives, however, on a couple of early edits of Carnival of Monsters (Episode 2) and Frontier in Space (Episode 5), which were sent in error to Australia and shown on ABC." Which would seem to contradict Richard Bignell's statement in NATEOTL2 that ABC only bought Season 11 onwards in colour.

As for Death to the Daleks 1, there are reports (including by Richard Molesworth) that a 1-inch tape with the opening scene edited out was returned in the early 80s before the 525-line copy from (possibly) Canada. But that's all the info I can find on that.

P

[Jon Preddle]

The situation with Frontier is that all of season 10 was sent to BBC Sydney on colour VT. Season 10 would be screened in b/w in 1973, but the REPEATS, scheduled for 1975, would be screened in colour. BBC Sydney made the b/w telerecordings, and the colour tapes put into storage to await scheduling post-1975.

However, due to changes at the ABC's in mid-1970s, the planned colour repeats of season 10 never happened, and the colour tapes remained in storage. BBC in London wiped their own colour tapes (bar 4-5). They had completely forgotten copies were held in Sydney.

But in the mid-1980s, when ABC negotiated for some Pertwee repeats., the colour tapes were extracted from BBC Sydney's vaults - et violia! a complete colour copy of Frontier was found!

[Jon Preddle]

I should add: when TVNZ came to buy season 10, they got the tapes from BBC Sydney. They didn't buy Frontier in Space or Planet of the Daleks because they didn't exist in full colour - or at least that's what BBC London was telling them.

And before anyone asks, no one knows what happened to the colour Planet of the Daleks ep 3 that BBC Sydney would have held in storage. If there even was one.

One thought is that ABC didn't buy a repeat of the serial, and so were supplied only with a b/w copy.

[Jon Preddle]

OR: BBC Sydney sent the VT of all the stories bar Frontier elsewhere when the ABC didn't screen the eps within their rights period.

Jon

[Paul Smith]

Most interesting, Jon, thanks very much.

Can I ask where your info is from? ABC documentation?

Cheers
P

[Jon Preddle]

It's via Damian Shanahan, Data Extract, and TVNZ documentation.

My own research into TVNZ's purchases highlighted the fact that NZ also got the 30 minute version of Carnival of Monsters ep 2. So the conclusion to draw from this is that we got our copies of the VTs from Australia.

Jon

[Paul Smith]

OK, trying to get this straight in my head - bear with me. (FYI My sources are the DWM Archives and The Third Doctor Handbook.)

Aus bought Carnival and Frontier (and the rest of Season 10) in June 1973. Don't know when Carnival was shown but apparently Frontier wasn't screened till Feb 74 and Planet of Daleks in May, presumably in b/w.

NZ showed Carnival (+ Three Doctors) in Sep 75 (in colour?) but appears to have never shown Frontier or PotD until the mid-late 80s.

So the colour tapes for Carnival and Three Docs could have come from Aus, as Jon reckons. BUT would BBC Ents really not have been selling Frontier and PotD full in colour by 75? They were in 74, according to the Ents 'A Quick Guide to Dr Who' catalogue. The DWM Archive for PotD says the tape of ep3 wasn't wiped until "around 1976". And if it was known Aus had colour tapes of Three Docs and Carnival that could be passed to NZ, why not Frontier and PotD?

Yet NZ appears not to have bought those two at this time (and didn't show Green Death till 79. Invasion of the Dinosaurs seems not to have been shown in the 70s either, presumably again because it was no longer in full colour). It just seems very odd that BBC Ents wasn't keeping hold of colour copies to sell overseas, especially as NZ telly went colour as early as 73.

Then, DWM says Frontier was repeated in Aus in 78 (yet doesn't say any of the stories around it were). If it was, would this have been in colour, from the tapes being held by BBC Sydney? Has this something to do with NZ not getting it, if Aus still had some broadcast rights? (But not the the rest of the season? Unlikely, surely.) Is this the showing that alerted Ian Levine to the fact Aus still had the story in colour, and if so why did it take 7 years to get them back?

(There were reportedly some season 10 repeats in 86, but presumably these were a completely new deal and from newly supplied tapes of BBC Ents' then holdings (ironically, by then including all six Frontier eps returned from Aus just the year before).)

As for the Delaware theme, I was beginning to assume that because Aus bought the season so soon after its UK transmission, the tapes it was sent had been duped before the affected episodes were re-edited. But that seems to have happened in late 1972, so it seems more likely it was just an accident that Aus was sent copies of a couple of 71 edits rather than the transmitted 72s.

So Frontier 5 came back from Aus with the Delaware theme on ep5. Does that mean the copy of Carnival 2 actually came back from NZ? If so, when?

My head hurts

Cheers
P

[Adrian Gregg]

(There were reportedly some season 10 repeats in 86)

EH?!? Most of the late 70's to Mid 80's we had Pertwee runs. Some Full some not. the one that started in 86 ( which i still have some VHS's of) was incomplete. The ABC missed a whole slew of storys for some wierd reason. but just beforte that 83-4-5? we had the whole run of pertwee's, I know becasue I taped most of em (then got rid of loads of the tapes ok they were only audio recordings ) and they were a mixed bag as far as colour was concerened. an epp of colour here and a b&W one there.
Here's another wierd colour question.. as far as i remember AOD Epp 1 had always aired down under from the colour VT. all other epps TR.
I have a tape of the abc contiunity Announcer say " Don't adjust your set's Doctor Who will return in B&W"
well when I last had Pay TV about 10 years ago Foxtel played AOD epp one from a TR!! eh where did this come from!

[Jon Preddle]

Yes, it is confusing, isn't it.

The sequence of events as far as I understand it is this:

1973
Soon after season 10 screens in the UK, copies of the tapes are sent to the BBC's sales office in Sydney, Australia. (This includes the 71 Edits of Carnival 2 and Frontier 5.)

BBC Sydney sells the season to the ABC (who have first refusal on all BBC material).

BBC Sydney makes b/w telerecordings of all eps.

ABC submits the films to the censor for classification. Censor rejects The Green Death, but passes the others, some with cuts.

The b/w season (sans Green Death) screens from December 73 to April 74.

BBC Sydney continues to sell the series in b/w to other countries. NZBC passes on any more b/w as it is switching to colour at the end of the year (73).

1975
Frontier in Space and Planet of Daleks are withdrawn from sale by BBC Enterprises in London. BBC Sydney notified. (BBC Sydney probably instructed to wipe its colour copies of Planet; but Frontier is spared from this purge, and the tapes remain in storage. By 1976, BBC London has wiped eps 1,2,3,6 of Frontier and ep 3 of Planet. The fact that Sydney still has a copy of Frontier is omitted from records.)

Mid-1975
NZBC buys what it can of the available colour Pertwees: Day of Daleks, Three Doctors, Carnival of Monsters, Time Warrior, Death to the Daleks. BBC Sydney sends copies of tapes to NZ.

1976
NZBC buys Monster of Peladon, Planet of the Spiders, and the first Tom Baker season.

1978
ABC buys a number of colour Pertwees: including Season 10 - but not Frontier and Planet of Daleks as they are "incomplete" and therefore not available. (No one knows the full copy of Frontier already exists in Australia!). Green Death is passed and screens for the first time.

1981/83
ABC negotiates for another run of colour Pertwee eps. Frontier and Planet of Daleks still not available: however someone finds the full colour copy Frontier in Space in BBC Sydney's vaults.

Jon

[Steven Sigel]

Jul 18, 2008 2:53:13 GMT Adrian Gregg said:

well when I last had Pay TV about 10 years ago Foxtel played AOD epp one from a TR!! eh where did this come from!

I assume "AOD" = Ambassadors of Death?

In the US they played the entire 7 episodes in B&W. Presumably for consistency. When they showed Planet of the Daleks here, they actually chopped out ep 3 from the omnibus version... For the episodic version, they screwed up and aired 1-5 (but not 6) with ep 3 in B&W making for a lot of irritated fans when episide 5 ended and they announced a "new story" beginning tomorrow... ....

Oh - and there were B&W T/Rs made of all the Pertwees up through Invasion of The Dinosaurs I beleive.