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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 15, 2007 21:45:20 GMT
Just a thought in your missing episodes list dougwulf, perhaps you should mention stories with short sections missing such as parts of the Time Meddler and the War Machines Yes, that would also be possible. First of all, I'm not sure which countries received UNEDITED PRINTS of those episodes originally. I could guess at this though. However, the edits are really fairly minor and my postings are pretty long already when you include the whole list. Again, the texts I propose are just suggested texts. If you repost these, feel free to include other such details or reword them in various ways. The top portions of the messages (without the lists) could also suffice on their own too.
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 15, 2007 21:46:44 GMT
Let us examine the sorts of people that have held audiovisual materials of interest in the past and who have surfaced:
1. Archives in the UK and in foreign nations -- This avenue should be left to the BBC to explore (to find more like Tomb of the Cybermen, etc.).
2. Former TV station employees -- Like Francis Watson (DMP: 2).
3. 16mm film collectors -- Like Bruce Grenville (Crusade: 1).
4. People who did early videotaping -- Like Tom Lundy (Flawed U-Matic color recordings of Ambassadors) and 'the boffin' (redundant copy of Space Pirates: 2).
5. People who filmed the TV screen with 8mm -- Like the Australian fan who gave us a view of the Hartnell/Troughton regeneration
6. People in specific geographical areas (the general population) -- This is the broadest category. These are just the public at large in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and other places where monochrone Doctor Who was shown overseas, and in the USA where color Pertwee was shown in the late 1970s. (Also, Africa, where Hartnell and Troughton were shown much later than in the UK, has not been sufficiently explored in my opinion.)
In summary, we can aim messages at former TV station employees as well as 16mm, 8mm, and videotape collectors in the UK, Australia, Singapore, New Zealand, Hong Kong, and Africa for monochrome episodes and in the UK and specific cities in North America for color episodes. Messages to the general public at large in these geographical regions would also be useful since the general public may know of former TV station employees or collectors of 16mm, 8mm, or videotapes in these same geographical areas. Another indirect possibility is that a TV archive employee or someone who knows a TV archive employee might see a posting and prompt an unofficial check of the archives (or at least put the information in the mind of the archive employee for later). Lastly, with a moderate amount of postings out there on the web, a person from the 'target audience' may view such a posting at random while searching Google for something else entirely. Thus, a certain volume of postings here and there and everywhere would be useful.
The most useful thing that Doctor Who fans could do (in my opinion) to help with the missing episode situation is to publicize it in various easy, direct, and free/inexpensive ways. The information needs to get out beyond Doctor Who fandom.
I have a coworker from Nigeria. I told him about the missing episode situation. He told me that his best friend in Nigeria happens to work in the TV industry and that he will talk to him when he again visits Nigeria. This sort of thing could produce results.
So could posting to Craig's List or to a Yahoo Group about Ethiopia.
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 15, 2007 21:57:15 GMT
I thought Time Meddler was complete now, because Ian Levine had a complete copy, which he kept to trade for other missing material?? No, Episode 4 is still missing close-up material of the Saxons stabbing Sven and Ulf. Richard And is it Episode 4 of War Machines that is missing a bit of soldiers versus war machines footage? Besides the UK, what would be your guess at the list of countries that received UNEDITED prints of these two edited episodes? The other way to restore them would be to find the censored footage, but that would be in a TV archive somewhere and not with the general public. I would need a bit more info to add this to the correct lists, if so desired.
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 15, 2007 22:02:03 GMT
The entire process of joining some discussion group and posting some version of this text takes about a minute. If even a tiny fraction of Doctor Who fandom were to try this strategy on a regular basis, there could be hundreds of such posts everywhere on the internet being viewed by thousands upon thousands of people worldwide. This could actually lead to recoveries of missing episodes. This is what fans should do, rather than posting lists to each other of which episode they would most like to see found. That's fine to do for fun, but why not direct your efforts in a potentially useful direction? This has not yet been tried in any significant or sustained way. The message needs to be directed outward to the world, rather than inward to the (relatively speaking) small community of fans. The main message within fandom should be to tell others outside of fandom. I've added that message to this website, for example... whona.realtvboard.com/index.htm
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 15, 2007 22:05:06 GMT
As an experiment, I typed in: "off air ambassadors mind" into Google yesterday... The first website listed was this one... newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/wan/396227527.htmlThis isn't even my posting! Someone else has written a query like the ones I have posted. This is the kind of random effect that we can get with the internet. I think this strategy could work, even though the chances remain slim. It's better than nothing, just takes a moment or two to post, and is free. Why not?
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 15, 2007 22:11:54 GMT
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 16, 2007 5:34:20 GMT
For the sake of completeness, it is also possible to draft the suggested text for other places on the globe to search for missing episodes, though these places just seem less likely prospects. The first of these is Gibralter. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The BBC is searching for lost episodes of classic television shows, including Doctor Who. Currently 108 episodes of Doctor Who are missing from the BBC archives. 36 of the 108 missing episodes were sent to Gibralter, mostly in 1973. Some may still exist in Gibralter as 16mm film prints or possibly as early off-air recordings. You can see the full list of missing episodes of Doctor Who (as well as missing episodes from other British TV shows such as Hancock’s Half Hour, A for Andromeda, etc.) at: www.missing-episodes.com If you think you may have a missing episode as a 16mm print or a copy in another format (8mm off-air or videotape), or have any information about these episodes, please contact the BBC by sending an email to: info@restoration-team.co.uk There is further information at: www.restoration-team.co.uk/ LIST OF MISSING EPISODES SENT TO GIBRALTER From the story The Crusade (Purchased 05/66) (episode 2) The Knight of Jaffa (episode 4) The War-Lords (In addition, the surviving print of episode 1 The Lion is damaged) From the story The Abominable Snowmen Part 1 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 From the story The Ice Warriors Part 2 Part 3 From the story The Enemy of the World (Purchased 04/73) Part 1 Part 2 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 From the story The Web of Fear (Purchased 04/73) Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Fury from the Deep Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 The Wheel in Space (Purchased 04/73) Part 1 Part 2 Part 4 Part 5 The Invasion Part 1 Part 4 The Space Pirates Part 1 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 In addition, color copies of the following episodes are sought that may have been broadcast in Gibralter in the 1970s in color: The Ambassadors of Death Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 6 Part 7 The Mind of Evil Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Planet of the Daleks Part 3 Invasion of the Dinosaurs (Onscreen title: Invasion) Part 1
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 16, 2007 5:34:48 GMT
The nations of the Caribbean also received early Hartnell episodes. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The BBC is searching for lost episodes of classic television shows, including Doctor Who. Currently 108 episodes of Doctor Who are missing from the BBC archives. 11 of the 108 missing episodes were sent to Caribbean nations and some may still exist there as 16mm film prints. You can see the full list of missing episodes of Doctor Who (as well as missing episodes from other British TV shows such as Hancock’s Half Hour, A for Andromeda, etc.) at: www.missing-episodes.com If you think you may have a missing episode as a 16mm print or a copy in another format (8mm off-air or videotape), or have any information about these episodes, please contact the BBC by sending an email to: info@restoration-team.co.uk There is further information at: www.restoration-team.co.uk/ LIST OF MISSING EPISODES SENT TO THE CARIBBEAN From the story Marco Polo (a.k.a. (Doctor Who and) The Journey to Cathay) — Sent at least to Bermuda and Jamaica (episode 1) The Roof of the World (episode 2) The Singing Sands (episode 3) Five Hundred Eyes (episode 4) The Wall of Lies (episode 5) Rider from Shang-Tu (episode 6) Mighty Kublai Khan (episode 7) Assassin at Peking From the story The Reign of Terror — Sent at least to Barbados and Trinidad & Tobago (episode 4) The Tyrant of France (episode 5) A Bargain of Necessity From the story The Crusade — Sent to the Caribbean (episode 2) The Knight of Jaffa (episode 4) The War-Lords (In addition, the surviving print of episode 1 The Lion is damaged)
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 16, 2007 5:35:42 GMT
Mauritius also received these early Hartnell episodes, but a frequent poster on Ian Levine's forum directly received a response that their episodes were returned. There is even some doubt as to whether the episodes were even broadcast, so off-air recordings would not even have been a possiblity. This place is a real dead dodo! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The BBC is searching for lost episodes of classic television shows, including Doctor Who. Currently 108 episodes of Doctor Who are missing from the BBC archives. 11 of the 108 missing episodes were sent to Mauritius. Some may still exist in Mauritius as 16mm film prints. You can see the full list of missing episodes of Doctor Who (as well as missing episodes from other British TV shows such as Hancock’s Half Hour, A for Andromeda, etc.) at: www.missing-episodes.com If you think you may have a missing episode as a 16mm print or a copy in another format (8mm off-air or videotape), or have any information about these episodes, please contact the BBC by sending an email to: info@restoration-team.co.uk There is further information at: www.restoration-team.co.uk/ LIST OF MISSING EPISODES SENT TO MAURITIUS From the story Marco Polo (a.k.a. (Doctor Who and) The Journey to Cathay) (episode 1) The Roof of the World (episode 2) The Singing Sands (episode 3) Five Hundred Eyes (episode 4) The Wall of Lies (episode 5) Rider from Shang-Tu (episode 6) Mighty Kublai Khan (episode 7) Assassin at Peking From the story The Reign of Terror (episode 4) The Tyrant of France (episode 5) A Bargain of Necessity From the story The Crusade (episode 2) The Knight of Jaffa (episode 4) The War-Lords (In addition, the surviving print of episode 1 The Lion is damaged)
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 16, 2007 5:35:59 GMT
Kenya, Zimbabwe (Rhodesia), and Thailand each received the same batch of nine early Hartnell episodes. If you want to use this posting, just delete the names of two of the three countries in both places in the text. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The BBC is searching for lost episodes of classic television shows, including Doctor Who. Currently 108 episodes of Doctor Who are missing from the BBC archives. 9 of the 108 missing episodes were sent to [ Kenya | Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) | Thailand ] and some may still exist there as 16mm film prints. You can see the full list of missing episodes of Doctor Who (as well as missing episodes from other British TV shows such as Hancock’s Half Hour, A for Andromeda, etc.) at: www.missing-episodes.com If you think you may have a missing episode as a 16mm print or a copy in another format (8mm off-air or videotape), or have any information about these episodes, please contact the BBC by sending an email to: info@restoration-team.co.uk There is further information at: www.restoration-team.co.uk/ LIST OF MISSING EPISODES SENT TO [ KENYA | ZIMBABWE (RHODESIA) | THAILAND ] From the story Marco Polo (a.k.a. (Doctor Who and) The Journey to Cathay) (episode 1) The Roof of the World (episode 2) The Singing Sands (episode 3) Five Hundred Eyes (episode 4) The Wall of Lies (episode 5) Rider from Shang-Tu (episode 6) Mighty Kublai Khan (episode 7) Assassin at Peking From the story The Reign of Terror (episode 4) The Tyrant of France (episode 5) A Bargain of Necessity
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 16, 2007 5:36:34 GMT
Marco Polo only was also sent to Ghana, Iran, and Venezuela. Again, the same text can be used for all three. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The BBC is searching for lost episodes of classic television shows, including Doctor Who. Currently 108 episodes of Doctor Who are missing from the BBC archives. 9 of the 108 missing episodes were sent to [ Ghana | Iran | Venezuela ] and some may still exist there as 16mm film prints. You can see the full list of missing episodes of Doctor Who (as well as missing episodes from other British TV shows such as Hancock’s Half Hour, A for Andromeda, etc.) at: www.missing-episodes.com If you think you may have a missing episode as a 16mm print or a copy in another format (8mm off-air or videotape), or have any information about these episodes, please contact the BBC by sending an email to: info@restoration-team.co.uk There is further information at: www.restoration-team.co.uk/ LIST OF MISSING EPISODES SENT TO [ GHANA | IRAN | VENEZUELA ] From the story Marco Polo (a.k.a. (Doctor Who and) The Journey to Cathay) (episode 1) The Roof of the World (episode 2) The Singing Sands (episode 3) Five Hundred Eyes (episode 4) The Wall of Lies (episode 5) Rider from Shang-Tu (episode 6) Mighty Kublai Khan (episode 7) Assassin at Peking
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 16, 2007 5:36:54 GMT
Lastly, there are a number of other places on earth where color Pertwee episodes may have been shown. Here is a generic text that could work for any of the places. I just list all 13 episodes sought in color although probably they were not all sold to each place. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The BBC is searching for color copies of 13 episodes of the series Doctor Who. Though filmed in color, these episodes today exist in the archives only as black-and-white prints. Color footage is sought to restore these episodes for release on DVD. In the 1970s, at least some of the episodes listed below were broadcast in color in [ Japan | South Korea | Dubai | Saudi Arabia | Kuwait | Brunei | Qatar | Lebanon | Gibraltar ] The episodes come from the stories: The Ambassadors of Death Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 6 Part 7 The Mind of Evil Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Planet of the Daleks Part 3 Invasion of the Dinosaurs (Onscreen title: Invasion) Part 1 If you have a videotape of these episodes in color or have any information about color copies of these episodes, please contact the BBC by sending an email to: info@restoration-team.co.uk There is further information at: www.restoration-team.co.uk/ See the link “Can You Help Us?”
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Post by Tom Spychalski on Aug 16, 2007 12:10:35 GMT
I will surely put it on site within the week and give you guys a link to view the finished page.
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 17, 2007 3:54:14 GMT
Marco Polo only was also sent to Ghana, Iran, and Venezuela. Again, the same text can be used for all three. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have it on good authority from someone who lived in Iran during the 1960s and 1970s that Dr Who did not screen there, on Channel 1, which was the only bordacster until the mid-1980s. The majority of programming that screened was American and locally made fare. Very little if any UK stuff was shown, and what little there was was mainly ITV or Granada rather than BBC. All foreign programming was dubbed into Farsi. I'm sure the two episodes sent to Iran by the NZBC in 1967 were audition prints, two random samples sent to see if Iran wanted to buy the series. It would seem they declined to do so. Of note, Freeman Agyemen's mother is Iranian. She might know for sure if/when Dr Who screened there! Jon Preddle
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 17, 2007 3:55:59 GMT
No, Episode 4 is still missing close-up material of the Saxons stabbing Sven and Ulf. Richard And is it Episode 4 of War Machines that is missing a bit of soldiers versus war machines footage? Besides the UK, what would be your guess at the list of countries that received UNEDITED prints of these two edited episodes? The other way to restore them would be to find the censored footage, but that would be in a TV archive somewhere and not with the general public. I would need a bit more info to add this to the correct lists, if so desired. A batch of cut Hartnells (including the afore-mentioned War Machines) was sent to Singapore from NEw Zealand in 1972. The cut Time Meddler was sent to Nigeria also by the NZBC, in 1973. Jon
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