70s WHISTLE TEST - LIVE OR TAPE?

[John Stewart Miller]

I know this ones been bugging me for some time, wonder if anyone can offer any help?

During the early to mid 1980s, Anne Nightingale (then features presenter) introduced a very interesting retrospect slot in OLD GREY WHISTLE TEST, showing clips from its archive. At that time she referred to a Roxy music clip being 'another one that missed the wiper'. Of the first Roxy session it was believed then the second session cut (Remake remodel) had been lost, but an off monitor colour film recording had been found in private hands.

I think about the samw time the issue was further confused by Mark ellen who infuriatingly alleged 'I'm pleased to say sessions requested by Principal Edwards, Gryphon, Woody woodmanseys U boat & Gentle giant don't exist, so we can't show them'. Looking into this years later documentation only seems to indicate the existance of a session by the second band. The evidence presented in later years implies that show was all live. Gentle giant I clearly recall being on film (not in the studio).

More recent comments by RECORD COLLECTOR and Michael appleton seem to suggest that OGWT was actually transmitted live, and thus, where an abscence occurs, the show was not wiped, but not recorded during transmission. Confusingly, the Rick Wakeman '73 session tapes seem to exist, as I've seen clips, yet records say nothing from the show exists. This implies the inserts were repeated at a later date then were wiped, implying some wiping. I've always thought though the session surely would be on a short length of tape which couldn't be reused for another complete programme.

What of Mike appletons comments about the acts, that an earlier act was taped in the afternoon and one act would go out live in the evenings transmissions. Does this indicate that where session tapes for a show exist in which two acts appeared, only one of the acts exists on the tape?

Be very pleased if anyone could shed more light on this.

[Gary C]

from what I remember when I worked at the BBC, the OGWT was pre-recorded earlier the same evening as its' TX. This would be from about 1979 onwards.

[Laurence Piper]

[quote author=John Stewart Miller board=totp thread=1117147984 post=1117147984
What of Mike appletons comments about the acts, that an earlier act was taped in the afternoon and one act would go out live in the evenings transmissions. Does this indicate that where session tapes for a show exist in which two acts appeared, only one of the acts exists on the tape?

Be very pleased if anyone could shed more light on this.[/quote]

Yes, I was wondering about this point. Looking at the Kal guide to OGWT, it's unclear as to which acts were the live ones and which were the pre-recorded ones in the early days. I am assuming that if Mike's remarks were correct then one act from each of those listed in the early shows is missing (with the session reel being the material from the pre-recorded one). This doesn't seem be totally a hard and fast rule though as some shows seem to have more than one act surviving from a particular edition!

Perhaps Andrew Martin can shed some light on this one? I would be interested to know if any of the "second" acts from early shows exist (e.g. Sparks, The Kinks).

[andrew martin]

Certainly there are a lot of early "Whistle Test"s where all that exists are VT inserts. A lot of later ones seem to have been live, although that hasn't stopped them still existing! At some point I mean to get down to doing an episode guide of some sort for "Whistle Test", if only as a means of getting an idea of its survival rate, tx format etc etc...

[dubs honest]

The Best Of Bowie DVD has an easter egg of an alternate take of "Pretty Things" (I think) which obviously means it was taped way back then (1972)?)

[dubs again]

The Best Of Bowie DVD has an easter egg of an alternate take of "Pretty Things" (I think) which obviously means it was taped way back then (1972)?)

[Westy 2]

Where does Roxy Music's 'Do The Strand' performance fit into this ?

I've only ever seen it as a colour film on the likes of VH1 !

[Kev]

There are clips of the Kinks and Phil Spector that were filmed in advance.

I think both were from 71.

At the end the interviewer explains to Spector that he has to nod to the camera so these shots can be interspresed later.

[Laurence Piper]

Westy said:

Where does Roxy Music's 'Do The Strand' performance fit into this ?

I've only ever seen it as a colour film on the likes of VH1 !

Probably because VH-1 tend to use ropey distribution copies of much material that often also exists in better quality. The Roxy clip was paobably just a colour t/r of a tape original.

[Gary]

VH1 show colour telerecordings of things like Ed Sullivan clips.Yet we know they all exist as pristine videotapes.Everything done on the cheap on that channel.It used to be a better channel than it has become though.

[pete]

think ill do a whistle test survival gude in the future at poptastic

s9.invisionfree.com/Poptastic_2006

[John Stewart Miller]

dubs said:

The Best Of Bowie DVD has an easter egg of an alternate take of "Pretty Things" (I think) which obviously means it was taped way back then (1972)?)

Yes, actually segments were. Apparently the actual programmes (series 1971 -75) were largely live with recorded inserts. Only a handful of transmissions for series 1 were recorded as complete shows. As a result, the only surviving material for the other shows is pre recorded material. Obviously this includes the live and animation film clips which were bought in by the ‘Filmfinders’ team.

The sessions exist as pre recorded insert tapes including all the band songs plus fluffed takes and count ins. Sometimes due to the desire to include other groups in one programme, numbers on the session tapes (i.e. ‘Pretty things’ Bowie) weren’t transmitted. It seems 90 per cent of these session tapes survive, hence the Bowie material.

However, looking at the previously published survival listings, discrepancies arise. For some reason, I think all the early session acts exist for ’71 bar Frank Zappa. With the surrounding items held this seems odd. With hindsight of even a couple of years after TX Zappa was a recognisably important act. The only possibilities there are that the performances by the band were transmitted live in show, thus are unavailable. Further, that an insert session tape did exist, but was later removed by an in house Zappa fan. There seems to be no logical conclusion by the apparent policy that they would wipe that single item.

For series 2, a discrepancy also arises for Rick Wakeman (Jan 73). The show was apparently live, but the session tape seems listed as missing. However. Footage was repeated, like Jim Croces session, in one or two ‘best of’ shows. The Wakeman footage has turned up on TV recently verifying its existence (‘6 wives’ LP). My theory there is the session tapes were accessed for repeat editions and unreturned to the technical dept.; thus either recycled or possibly removed.

Series 3 has a similar discrepancy to Zappa in series 1, but with the CAN session (1974) being missing. Again this is odd, as all the session tapes either side appear to exist, as well as complete programme off air VTs. Can were another collectible rock act noted for their unusual qualities, so the absence seems conspicuous.

Michael Appleton then refers on the OGWT DVDs to ‘one act being pre taped and one appearing live on transmission’ or similar. However, some repeats of sessions indicate both billed acts in some editions surviving. This has got a lot of people, like me, wondering if some of the interesting ‘other’ early acts not being shown. I think some bands from same editions as Colin Blunstone (1971), Audience (1972), Ralph McTell and Gordon Giltrap (’71) have been shown but not these. This has given rise to speculation outlined, that for some shows only one of the billed acts survives.

I mention the acts above as these were amongst those (alongside Cockney Rebel 1974) I’d most like to have seen again. (Some I only knew from the records made at the time or heard later on).

[plug]

bowie at whistle test

why is it called an easter egg

as its just a track in the listing and not hidden

its at the start of the disc