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Post by deanreynolds on Oct 20, 2023 14:18:53 GMT
With the recent finds of comedy and drama, it seems there's still some small hope that more missing episodes of the shows we all love being found.
What are your thoughts of the current finds. Have we already had the best discoveries we're going to get, or, as more collectors pass and their collections become available, are we yet to see the Golden Age of Discoveries?
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Post by garygraham on Oct 20, 2023 15:54:48 GMT
I always think there's more chance of material on film being found than on video. Because film could be cut up, wound onto a different spool and easily find its way into a wrongly labelled can. Video on the other hand usually had an ident at the beginning and the cassette or reel itself could be labelled. Then there is the question of equipment on which to play videotapes, which is disappearing all the time.
We are near the end of broadcast TV and with the commercial nature of everything and costs I don't believe everything will be kept going forward.
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Post by Joe Haynes on Oct 20, 2023 17:33:18 GMT
I hope the golden period is starting but I think peoples interest in lost TV is slowly dying. 10 years ago, recovery threads would be long with lots of discussion . Nowadays its a little quiet.
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Post by deanreynolds on Nov 1, 2023 14:37:51 GMT
With so many great finds and potential finds at the Film is Fabulous events, and the Missing Believed Wiped 2023, it seems we are about to see some fantastic returns to the archives.
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Post by garygraham on Nov 1, 2023 23:23:20 GMT
I hope the golden period is starting but I think peoples interest in lost TV is slowly dying. 10 years ago, recovery threads would be long with lots of discussion . Nowadays its a little quiet. Some of the people I work with, who are in their late 20s/early 30s have never heard of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" or, going further back, Arthur Askey or Will Hay. So there is a lack of interest in our TV and film heritage in some regards. Then there is the pace of technological change. Whereas 405 line TV continued for 50 years and 625 line for 40, which made old programmes seem more "current" to us, things are moving more quickly now. Frankly, 405 line programmes look ancient, in the same way silent films did to us growing up in the 1970s. Plots are drawn out in mindnumbing fashion. With a few exceptions ("Tomb of the Cybermen" perhaps) I can't imagine many youngsters sitting down to watch Hartnell or Troughton Doctor Who. Gradually 625 line video programmes will meet the same fate. The move away from the more theatrical style of staging in the studio has made studio productions less accessible to the younger generation too because they expect total reality. So these programmes are becoming museum pieces. The people who remember the old shows are dying off. Even the 60s ITC productions, which have the benefit of 35mm picture quality and appear HD can come across as wooden (I just watched Randall and Hopkirk with a neighbour) before writing this. I'm struck by how Kenneth Cope's "cheeky scouser" personality hasn't dated well, in much the same way as the aforementioned Arthur Askey and the scripts can be quite tedious. I like to see the locations... So then the question is: what is being wiped from more recent times and what will be wiped as broadcast TV declines and in a world of hundreds of channels? I tend to think factual, entertainment and new programmes will be. Drama not. And will anyone care? |
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Post by RossL on Nov 3, 2023 16:12:36 GMT
So then the question is: what is being wiped from more recent times and what will be wiped as broadcast TV declines and in a world of hundreds of channels? I tend to think factual, entertainment and new programmes will be. Drama not. And will anyone care? There are MANY dozens of minor satellite tv channels that have come into existance & rapidly gone bust over the last 20 years. I could easily name 50 or more channels you will almost certainly never heard of. The archives of most of these are likely destroyed, and for some of the more obscure ones there is virtually nothing on YT or other video sites either. |
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Post by stevehoare61 on Nov 4, 2023 6:35:51 GMT
I think a lot also has to do with what the programme is...Old favourites like Dads Army, etc will always find an audience because it is often repeated, its high profile and gets press attention when something is found. The same with Doctor Who. The attention it receives is enormous, remember when the 9 eps were found 10 yrs ago. Its a cult show, with a massive worldwide audience, and if they do have a couple of lost eps as a big surprise for us, imagine the press attention. Its constantly being kept fresh in our minds. Also because its so accessible. They have found another Sykes and another Basil Brush, it all warranted headlines, but sadly will probably stop there and soon be forgotten. Unless these shows are shown, released or loaded onto a streaming service, the younger generations will not understand how important they are. This is a situation that the BBC has actually not helped in at all. DVD releases of older TV is rare these days except DR WHO again, where the same thing gets release again and again and again. Searching for lost material, restoring lost material is wonderfull and thank god for the collectors, no matter how they acquired these films. But if the material is simply tucked away, never to be seen, then its completely at odds with the whole point of discovering lost treasures.
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Post by garygraham on Nov 4, 2023 9:34:54 GMT
I think a lot also has to do with what the programme is...Old favourites like Dads Army, etc will always find an audience because it is often repeated, its high profile and gets press attention when something is found. The same with Doctor Who. The attention it receives is enormous, remember when the 9 eps were found 10 yrs ago. Its a cult show, with a massive worldwide audience, and if they do have a couple of lost eps as a big surprise for us, imagine the press attention. Its constantly being kept fresh in our minds. Also because its so accessible. They have found another Sykes and another Basil Brush, it all warranted headlines, but sadly will probably stop there and soon be forgotten. Unless these shows are shown, released or loaded onto a streaming service, the younger generations will not understand how important they are. This is a situation that the BBC has actually not helped in at all. DVD releases of older TV is rare these days except DR WHO again, where the same thing gets release again and again and again. Searching for lost material, restoring lost material is wonderfull and thank god for the collectors, no matter how they acquired these films. But if the material is simply tucked away, never to be seen, then its completely at odds with the whole point of discovering lost treasures. Looking through BBC Genome most classic Doctor Who stories NEVER had a repeat showing on BBC1 or BBC2. Planet of the Spiders is one classic that never did. They've always been used to push pay-for channels and DVDs. Putting them all on iPlayer now is a wonderful thing. I hadn't realised how many I have never seen. |
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Nov 4, 2023 18:07:49 GMT
Looking through BBC Genome most classic Doctor Who stories NEVER had a repeat showing on BBC1 or BBC2. Planet of the Spiders is one classic that never did. There was an omnibus repeat of PotS on 27/12/74. |
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Post by garygraham on Nov 5, 2023 9:10:04 GMT
Looking through BBC Genome most classic Doctor Who stories NEVER had a repeat showing on BBC1 or BBC2. Planet of the Spiders is one classic that never did. There was an omnibus repeat of PotS on 27/12/74. You're right. That was the year it was first shown. |
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Post by John Green on Nov 5, 2023 10:54:49 GMT
There was an omnibus repeat of PotS on 27/12/74. You're right. That was the year it was first shown. Only just! |
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Post by John Wall on Nov 5, 2023 19:18:37 GMT
To answer the original question I doubt there will be future mass recoveries as archives are properly catalogued and digitised but there will always be prints in attics, under stairs, etc - Film Is Fabulous has shown that, but how many take up 16mm collecting nowadays? There’s a FIF report of a ME from a deceased collector’s collection - that could easily have been dumped.
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Post by Tim Burrows on Nov 6, 2023 10:25:36 GMT
I think a lot also has to do with what the programme is...Old favourites like Dads Army, etc will always find an audience because it is often repeated, its high profile and gets press attention when something is found. The same with Doctor Who. The attention it receives is enormous, remember when the 9 eps were found 10 yrs ago. Its a cult show, with a massive worldwide audience, and if they do have a couple of lost eps as a big surprise for us, imagine the press attention. Its constantly being kept fresh in our minds. Also because its so accessible. They have found another Sykes and another Basil Brush, it all warranted headlines, but sadly will probably stop there and soon be forgotten. Unless these shows are shown, released or loaded onto a streaming service, the younger generations will not understand how important they are. This is a situation that the BBC has actually not helped in at all. DVD releases of older TV is rare these days except DR WHO again, where the same thing gets release again and again and again. Searching for lost material, restoring lost material is wonderfull and thank god for the collectors, no matter how they acquired these films. But if the material is simply tucked away, never to be seen, then its completely at odds with the whole point of discovering lost treasures. Good post. Frustrating isn't it. While I understand why they're releasing yet another iteration of Blackadder, I'd love to see some focus on older material. Sadly there's no demand and therefore it can't be commercially viable. I would love to see them trying to seed demand though through iplayer. I, for one, hoover up any vintage material they stick on there. All I would say is that if programmes are not returned, then them seeing the light of day is simply impossible, rather than just a remote possibility. |
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Post by garygraham on Nov 7, 2023 0:01:49 GMT
I think a lot also has to do with what the programme is...Old favourites like Dads Army, etc will always find an audience because it is often repeated, its high profile and gets press attention when something is found. The same with Doctor Who. The attention it receives is enormous, remember when the 9 eps were found 10 yrs ago. Its a cult show, with a massive worldwide audience, and if they do have a couple of lost eps as a big surprise for us, imagine the press attention. Its constantly being kept fresh in our minds. Also because its so accessible. They have found another Sykes and another Basil Brush, it all warranted headlines, but sadly will probably stop there and soon be forgotten. Unless these shows are shown, released or loaded onto a streaming service, the younger generations will not understand how important they are. This is a situation that the BBC has actually not helped in at all. DVD releases of older TV is rare these days except DR WHO again, where the same thing gets release again and again and again. Searching for lost material, restoring lost material is wonderfull and thank god for the collectors, no matter how they acquired these films. But if the material is simply tucked away, never to be seen, then its completely at odds with the whole point of discovering lost treasures. Good post. Frustrating isn't it. While I understand why they're releasing yet another iteration of Blackadder, I'd love to see some focus on older material. Sadly there's no demand and therefore it can't be commercially viable. I would love to see them trying to seed demand though through iplayer. I, for one, hoover up any vintage material they stick on there. All I would say is that if programmes are not returned, then them seeing the light of day is simply impossible, rather than just a remote possibility. Putting things on iPlayer will reduce some costs. But there are still fixed costs related to clearing and negotiating rights for music, actors and so on. So in the end they always have to look at how many people will watch whatever it is or buy it and at what price. If a release of Sykes or Basil Brush cost £1000 because only five people were interested would you want it that much? |
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Post by John Wall on Nov 7, 2023 0:46:29 GMT
Good post. Frustrating isn't it. While I understand why they're releasing yet another iteration of Blackadder, I'd love to see some focus on older material. Sadly there's no demand and therefore it can't be commercially viable. I would love to see them trying to seed demand though through iplayer. I, for one, hoover up any vintage material they stick on there. All I would say is that if programmes are not returned, then them seeing the light of day is simply impossible, rather than just a remote possibility. Putting things on iPlayer will reduce some costs. But there are still fixed costs related to clearing and negotiating rights for music, actors and so on. So in the end they always have to look at how many people will watch whatever it is or buy it and at what price. And unfortunately it comes back to the question of whether we really need to keep every episode of every quiz show. Or just a representative sample. Or even poorer quality episodes of Basil Brush or Sykes which I remember feeling was a bit tedious on occasions, as most shows were. I recall a TV channel that primarily showed old quiz/game shows which suggests that, at an appropriate price, there’s a market for them. There are several issues here. The way computer memory has reduced in price is incredible, to some extent the problem is now cataloguing//retrieving not storage, Notwithstanding that it’s difficult to see why future historians, etc would gain much from having every episode of Blankety Blank, Sale of the Century, Generation Game, etc, etc, etc. A similar argument can probably be made for sitcoms - Dads Army seems to be on a continuous loop but how many episodes are needed to understand what made it so special? Drama is different, complete series/serials are important as these can go up and down. A good example is the DW “Enemy of the World” which for ages was only represented by Episode 3 which, to put it kindly, isn’t particularly brilliant, it’s a “filler” in a six parter. When the whole thing became available it was reassessed and is now more highly regarded. |
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