The Independent - Lost Doctor Who episodes are ‘out there'

[awpeacock]

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/doctor-who-lost-episodes-ncuti-gatwa-b2386110.html

CEO of Kaleidoscope claims "dozens" of MEs are in the hands of collectors who won't share them... 

[Richard Develyn]

Well, this is going to set a rabbit off :-)

Assuming this isn't some piece of mis-reporting I do wonder, as well as the "dozens" line, why Chris Perry might have chosen this particular moment to make a statement like this to the press.

Richard

[Andrew Dunn]

I don't think Chris Perry has stated 'dozens'. It looks like the journalist has added that to the headline. I also looked at the Radio Times on line and this also does not say dozens. Chris appears to be simply repeating for the benefit of their readers what we already know, that ‘some’ missing episodes are in private hands they wont give them up.

Andy

[John Wall]

Aug 2, 2023 13:02:32 GMT Andrew Dunn said:

I don't think Chris Perry has stated 'dozens'. It looks like the journalist has added that to the headline. I also looked at the Radio Times on line and this also does not say dozens. Chris appears to be simply repeating for the benefit of their readers what we already know, that ‘some’ missing episodes are in private hands they wont give them up.

Andy

I’m inclined to agree. I don’t think any of those, such as PM and PV, actively involved in searching for DW MEs would sign up to that. I think there’s a reasonable chance, with a following wind, of getting the total down to c. 90.

Of course there’ll always be one more DW ME out there……

[jimhope]

Looks as if the journalist writing the story has sensationalised it by saying there are dozens out there

[John Green]

In batches of 13 if it's Tom Baker episodes.

[michaelnorris]

Aug 2, 2023 13:02:32 GMT Andrew Dunn said:

I don't think Chris Perry has stated 'dozens'. It looks like the journalist has added that to the headline. I also looked at the Radio Times on line and this also does not say dozens. Chris appears to be simply repeating for the benefit of their readers what we already know, that ‘some’ missing episodes are in private hands they wont give them up.

Andy

I'm inclined to believe that the "dozens" figure is probably factually accurate but no one in the know would actually claim so based on their knowledge. At most we can say something around 8-9 are known to exist, but I'd say its a safe bet that theres probably more than are known to be in private hands out there somewhere. Are some episodes likely gone forever? Yes probably, but I'd bet when all is said and done we end up with another 20-30 found. May take another 60 years for that to happen of course.

[John Green]

Actually, this:

"At the moment, 97 episodes of the popular BBC sci-fi series are unavailable to watch anywhere, and had been believed to be “lost”.

The episodes went missing when the BBC stopped archiving programmes between 1967 and 1978, during which time Doctor Who was in its original run.

Chris Perry, CEO of the TV archive organisation Kaleidoscope, has now told Radio Times that the lost episodes – featuring William Hartnell as the first Doctor and Patrick Troughton as the second – are known to still exist in some form."

is suggesting that CP is saying that ALL the missing episodes exist. I really don't think he said that.

[John Wall]

Aug 2, 2023 16:11:57 GMT michaelnorris said:

Aug 2, 2023 13:02:32 GMT Andrew Dunn said:

I don't think Chris Perry has stated 'dozens'. It looks like the journalist has added that to the headline. I also looked at the Radio Times on line and this also does not say dozens. Chris appears to be simply repeating for the benefit of their readers what we already know, that ‘some’ missing episodes are in private hands they wont give them up.

Andy

I'm inclined to believe that the "dozens" figure is probably factually accurate but no one in the know would actually claim so based on their knowledge. At most we can say something around 8-9 are known to exist, but I'd say its a safe bet that theres probably more than are known to be in private hands out there somewhere. Are some episodes likely gone forever? Yes probably, but I'd bet when all is said and done we end up with another 20-30 found. May take another 60 years for that to happen of course.

I’d like to believe that but, I’m sorry, I think it’s extremely unlikely. The chances of another “cache” like EofW and WoF are extremely slim so we’re down to odd episodes, or pairs, that made it into the hands of collectors or, somehow, are lying around somewhere. Perhaps another ten, as a maximum.

[michaelnorris]

Aug 2, 2023 16:16:40 GMT John Green said:

Actually, this:

"At the moment, 97 episodes of the popular BBC sci-fi series are unavailable to watch anywhere, and had been believed to be “lost”.

The episodes went missing when the BBC stopped archiving programmes between 1967 and 1978, during which time Doctor Who was in its original run.

Chris Perry, CEO of the TV archive organisation Kaleidoscope, has now told Radio Times that the lost episodes – featuring William Hartnell as the first Doctor and Patrick Troughton as the second – are known to still exist in some form."

is suggesting that CP is saying that ALL the missing episodes exist. I really don't think he said that.

Yeah there's no way he said that. Even if I am on the more optimistic end of people here I don't think we would ever get more than half back, and that would take multiple unprecedented miracles. Sadly some of them are definitely gone forever, and anything we get back at this point is close to 60 years of miracles working to get them to us.

[michaelnorris]

Aug 2, 2023 16:52:51 GMT John Wall said:

Aug 2, 2023 16:11:57 GMT michaelnorris said:

I'm inclined to believe that the "dozens" figure is probably factually accurate but no one in the know would actually claim so based on their knowledge. At most we can say something around 8-9 are known to exist, but I'd say its a safe bet that theres probably more than are known to be in private hands out there somewhere. Are some episodes likely gone forever? Yes probably, but I'd bet when all is said and done we end up with another 20-30 found. May take another 60 years for that to happen of course.

I’d like to believe that but, I’m sorry, I think it’s extremely unlikely. The chances of another “cache” like EofW and WoF are extremely slim so we’re down to odd episodes, or pairs, that made it into the hands of collectors or, somehow, are lying around somewhere. Perhaps another ten, as a maximum.

Sadly you are likely right. I remain optimistic but maybe that's because I'm young . I'm grateful for anything else we ever get and don't mean to create false hope.

[John Wall]

Aug 2, 2023 17:58:44 GMT michaelnorris said:

Aug 2, 2023 16:52:51 GMT John Wall said:

I’d like to believe that but, I’m sorry, I think it’s extremely unlikely. The chances of another “cache” like EofW and WoF are extremely slim so we’re down to odd episodes, or pairs, that made it into the hands of collectors or, somehow, are lying around somewhere. Perhaps another ten, as a maximum.

Sadly you are likely right. I remain optimistic but maybe that's because I'm young . I'm grateful for anything else we ever get and don't mean to create false hope.

If the number missing ever got to 89 I’d be close to saying that there aren’t any more.

[anthonybartley]

If you read it correctly, Chris Perry says exactly:

"“We know where there is missing Doctor Who out there, but the owners won’t return it at the moment,” Perry said."

That's the bit in quotation marks signifying his words.

'is' and 'it' refer to the singular. As in '1'

I don't understand how people here interpreted it as anything more than 1? (excluding the rather inflated title of the piece, but it's what Chris Perry says that we're paying attention to)

Anyway, it's 1 (unless Chris suddenly had a momentary lapse of grammar - which I suspect he didn't)

1

Just had a funny thought - what if  Philip Morris actually kept the 'elusive' WoF3 reel for himself, hoping to use it as bait to draw out other collectors and hopefully unearth more lost episodes. Of course, he could have also assumed an alias - so it could be that Chris Perry is in contact with Philip Morris and they've been sparring with each other, with Chris trying to coax it out of Philip during all these years (without knowing it's him)

Yeah, moving on...

[John Green]

Aug 2, 2023 19:03:44 GMT anthonybartley said:

If you read it correctly, Chris Perry says exactly:

"“We know where there is missing Doctor Who out there, but the owners won’t return it at the moment,” Perry said."

That's the bit in quotation marks signifying his words.

'is' and 'it' refer to the singular. As in '1'

I don't understand how people here interpreted it as anything more than 1? (excluding the rather inflated title of the piece, but it's what Chris Perry says that we're paying attention to)

Anyway, it's 1 (unless Chris suddenly had a momentary lapse of grammar - which I suspect he didn't)

1

Just had a funny thought - what if  Philip Morris actually kept the 'elusive' WoF3 reel for himself, hoping to use it as bait to draw out other collectors and hopefully unearth more lost episodes. Of course, he could have also assumed an alias - so it could be that Chris Perry is in contact with Philip Morris and they've been sparring with each other, with Chris trying to coax it out of Philip during all these years (without knowing it's him)

Yeah, moving on...

I think there's an underlying meaning of (a number of) Doctor Who episodes out there.When we say we watch 'Doctor Who' we mean more than one episode.

[jattree]

This article mentions that the film collectors are refusing to share what they have which connects back to what Paul Vanezis wrote in regards to the recent Britbox rumours. There he posted that,


'The films I have seen are still with the collector and there is no chance anytime soon of them being handed over to anyone."


The question I would like to ask, especially to Paul is why? Why don't these collectors want to hand over them? Is is because they are after money or like the feeling of exclusivity of owning something no one else has or could it be they feel protective of them having ensured that they still exist? All of which are fair enough and I understand why they don't want to hand them over but it would be nice to just to know their rationale.

If it's money there are more than enough of us to crowd fund whatever their asking price is, assuming it isn't something ridiculous like the GDP of a Caribbean nation.

If it the second or third ideas, as long as they are in a protected and controlled environment and won't turn into vinegar then at least there is hope.