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Post by Paul Watkins on May 15, 2022 10:23:31 GMT
I wonder if anyone can shed any light (no pun intended) on the Episode 'Put That Light Out' from Series 4 not having the normal 'You Have Been Watching' at the end missing? Has the end been cut for some reason?
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Post by robkeeley on Feb 19, 2023 16:12:10 GMT
It does cut to the end credits very suddenly. It was one of the episodes recovered from Australia in the late Eighties and Carmen Silvera claimed the ending of another of these she was in, Mum's Army, had been cut (though I've never been sure about that). The two It Ain't Half Hot Mum episodes recovered as off-airs from the same era were cut for time, so it's certainly not impossible.
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Post by Ed Brown on Mar 19, 2023 20:55:53 GMT
I wonder if anyone can shed any light (no pun intended) on the Episode 'Put That Light Out' from Series 4 not having the normal 'You Have Been Watching' at the end missing? Has the end been cut for some reason? I don't offer this as a definitive answer, but when I met Harold Snoad I *think* he said he directed Put That Light Out, whereas David Croft normally directed the episodes. Put That Light Out is possibly just suffering from being prepared for transmission by Harold, who only directed a handful of the 80 episodes, and was not as familiar as David Croft with how the episodes were normally formatted for broadcast. It is entirely possible that Harold Snoad's relative inexperience with directing the show led to him overlooking the 'You have been watching...' credit.
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Post by robkeeley on Mar 20, 2023 17:13:34 GMT
'Put That Light Out!' was based on an idea by Harold Snoad (who suggested a lighthouse episode) and he even got a credit for it, but according to this, it was directed by David Croft. dadsarmy.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Episodes
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Post by Ed Brown on Mar 24, 2023 2:47:32 GMT
'Put That Light Out!' was based on an idea by Harold Snoad (who suggested a lighthouse episode) and he even got a credit for it, but according to this, it was directed by David Croft. dadsarmy.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Episodes Ah, but... It's a bit dodgy to rely on a fan-source for this sort of info. I'd want to see a BBC source. But even if David did direct the episode (which isn't certain, as the show doesn't normally include a director's screen credit), because of the special circumstances (he was not only directing most of the episodes, he was also co-writing all of them AND was producing the show) it's unlikely he also had the time to personally edit all of the footage. This could simply be an error by the film editor, under the pressure of time.
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Post by robkeeley on Mar 24, 2023 17:23:51 GMT
Just had a look at the episode itself and yes, it's Croft, even though Snoad is credited for the idea for the episode. If there's no separate director credit from the producer, it's Croft. Agree it could be an editing error. Or it could have been made in Australia. Without a version of the original broadcast (e.g. a b/w film recording) it's impossible to say.
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Post by Ed Brown on Apr 13, 2023 11:52:40 GMT
Agree it could be an editing error. Or it could have been made in Australia. You're implying that the 2-inch quad PAL master tape was sent to Australia. Not as impossible as it sounds! Some Pertwee quad tapes did turn up with ABC Australia stickers all over them, indicating that ABC had received the actual Dr Who master videotapes for transmission. But is there any actual evidence from a BBC source that this is what happened for this Dad's Army episode?
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Post by robkeeley on Apr 19, 2023 20:34:50 GMT
I'm not implying anything and don't have access to BBC documentation! This is pure speculation based on some knowledge of how these things were done. I know this was one of the episodes returned from Australia after Croft intervened but have no way of knowing whether it was the original master or a copy, or whether edits were made.
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Post by garycritcher on Apr 25, 2023 14:18:24 GMT
How do we know that the 2" tapes found in Australia were actual MASTER tapes? When I worked in VT Current Ops at Television Centre, Enterprises were the bane of our lives wanting TX masters to dub to create their own masters to dub from....
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Apr 25, 2023 16:56:03 GMT
How do we know that the 2" tapes found in Australia were actual MASTER tapes? When I worked in VT Current Ops at Television Centre, Enterprises were the bane of our lives wanting TX masters to dub to create their own masters to dub from.... Interesting thread. I believe that the tapes found in Australia were not originals, but PAL copies. However, when I was researching the inventory of the Monty Python archive, I was looking for records in foreign archives in the hope of finding some lost masters. I did find two original TX masters of series 2 in the Python's own archive and a copy of one that was subsequently censored and the original wiped. For the second series, New Zealand broadcast the entire series twice, the contract for which was dated November 22nd 1974, although broadcasts had been taking place from September that year. Thanks to Jon Preddle for doing the NZ research. These are the tapes that were sent to NZ: 1. F4209 - Enterprises 'Foreign' spool. The original tape (44893) was preserved by the BBC. There is a 525 master conversion (41226) in the Python archive. It's the only 525 master I have been able to track down. 2. F4015 - Enterprises 'Foreign' spool. The original tape (611976) was preserved by the BBC. There is also a safety copy (47930) made in 1971, but not for the 1971 repeat. 3. F4080 - Enterprises 'Foreign' spool. The original tape (4214) was never archived for some bizarre reason but is in the Python archive. The BBC kept the safety copy made for the 1971 TX. 4. 40024 - 1971 TX Master (The 1970 TX Master was retained and is just 8 frames longer than the 1971 cut) 5. 44794 - 1970 TX Master 6. 43908 - 1970 TX Master 7. 94080 - 1970 TX Master An Enterprises copy (415035) was made in 1978 8. 42785 - This is the safety copy of the original TX master 94081 - in the Python archive - which was damaged in 1973 9. 482 - 1971 TX Master (The Enterprises spool F730 - in the Python archive - is the only surviving master copy of the original TX master 44316 which was wiped in 1971. Another Enterprises copy (415035) was made in 1978 and is in the Python archive.) 10. 43315 - 1970 TX Master An Enterprises copy (413347) was made in 1978 and is in the Python archive. It was also used for the 1987 repeat as a "Replacement for wiped master". That wasn't true; the master wasn't wiped. 11. 43588 - 1970 TX Master An Enterprises copy (410249) was made in 1978 and is in the Python archive. 12. F63559 - 1970 TX Master Although it has an 'F' prefix, the number matches the original TX spool number (63559) so I reckon the original tape was sent. A copy of the original TX spool was made in 1979 and is in the Python archive. 13. 4286 - 1971 TX Master (This version has the final 'cannibal' sketch removed but was never screened in the UK. It was renumbered before sending to New Zealand to 43054. An Enterprises copy of this spool was made in 1979 and is in the Python archive.) None of the original Enterprises copies that they were sent have survived, but all of the TX masters that were sent are now in the National Film Archive, with digital copies at the BBC and also in the Python archive. Paul
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Apr 28, 2023 21:50:05 GMT
How do we know that the 2" tapes found in Australia were actual MASTER tapes? When I worked in VT Current Ops at Television Centre, Enterprises were the bane of our lives wanting TX masters to dub to create their own masters to dub from.... That kind of thing explains the two Half Hot episodes mentioned earlier (surviving now only as abridged off airs). Australia in 1988 wasn't even the last time/place that those were shown; they were still sold abroad as late as 1990.
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Post by robkeeley on Apr 29, 2023 8:01:57 GMT
Never knew that about the IAHHM episodes! Who had them last?
We've wandered a little from the point, though, which is - was the end of the final scene in Put That Light Out! cut for time/advertising? Or was there never a "You have been watching" there at all? David Croft was such a meticulous producer/director that it would seem an uncharacteristically careless mistake for him.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Apr 29, 2023 16:48:45 GMT
Never knew that about the IAHHM episodes! Who had them last? We've wandered a little from the point, though, which is - was the end of the final scene in Put That Light Out! cut for time/advertising? Or was there never a "You have been watching" there at all? David Croft was such a meticulous producer/director that it would seem an uncharacteristically careless mistake for him. Well, true, but PV was talking about Monty Python's Flying Circus I presume, but it's all very relevant for what might have happened and what might therefore exist. The two IAHHM episodes were recorded off air in Australia in 1988, abridged versions of 25 minutes instead of 30 to allow for commercials. A copy of that tape was returned, with gratitude, although no-one ever asked for the first generation. However, the same two episodes were again shown in 1990(!) on the first commercial station of the Netherlands. The schedules suggest a 25 minute slot, but someone posted a recording on youtube of the episode in between (I mean of course from that same run, that year at that channel) and it was 30 minutes (albeit subtitled). Isn't that tantalising, EXACTLY the episode in between those two!
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Post by robkeeley on Apr 30, 2023 7:33:31 GMT
So, you know what I'm going to ask - has anyone contacted the Netherlands station about those episodes? The one in between is 'The Jungle Patrol' which was released on video soon afterwards in Feb 1991 and I still have that tape!
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RWels
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Post by RWels on May 1, 2023 14:16:53 GMT
So, you know what I'm going to ask - has anyone contacted the Netherlands station about those episodes? The one in between is 'The Jungle Patrol' which was released on video soon afterwards in Feb 1991 and I still have that tape! I'm more interested if anyone has asked different branches of the BBC. The Dutch station is quite unlikely to have kept tapes from 1990 especially because they later repeated the series but with the two afflicted episodes missing. (Besides, yes I DID ask them and the answer is probably no, although you can never be certain if nothing uncatalogued isn't lying around or in a corner.)
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