|
Post by simoncurtis on Apr 7, 2022 22:00:14 GMT
In the late-1970s when the BBC and other TV companies audited their archives and discovered the extent of wiping/junking. Why was there no urgency and publicity campaigns to help recover lost material?
|
|
|
Post by John Wall on Apr 7, 2022 22:34:18 GMT
In the late-1970s when the BBC and other TV companies audited their archives and discovered the extent of wiping/junking. Why was there no urgency and publicity campaigns to help recover lost material? Even at that time there was little interest. Much missing DW was recovered because of the efforts of Sue Malden and Ian Levine - Auntie wasn’t really interested and home video was a few years away.
|
|
|
Post by garygraham on Apr 9, 2022 3:53:45 GMT
I don't think there's much urgency now. My experience has been broadcasters only want material if a programme is in the works. Also all these things that are spotted on YouTube... How often is there an attempt to obtain the original VHS tape? Of course by now many of those tapes will have undergone a poor transfer to DVD or digital file and been disposed of, with no opportunity for something better in terms of picture and sound.
So the "junking" of VHS has been another missed opportunity with no urgency.
A vast amount of local ITV programming has been lost and regional BBC too. Not sure when the BBC began saving full programmes of regional news. Maybe it still doesn't. Some local news presenters effectively had their entire career wiped. The 16mm film reports exist in some cases. But think of all the studio interviews. That was local history...
|
|
|
Post by Peter Stirling on Apr 9, 2022 9:09:11 GMT
Sometimes they had only bought the rights for one or two showings (this included the actors' performances). They were not going to take up costly storage space on stuff that they could not use anymore.. or they had to go out again and negotiate another deal, with the risk that (because it was old) it might flop in the ratings anyway.
TV production is just any business, a car maker might wax lyrical with someone who has one of their old models but behind closed doors, he wants it in the scrapyard so that you buy one of his new models.
|
|
|
Post by simoncurtis on Apr 11, 2022 19:57:33 GMT
Some domestic video recordings have been included on BBC dvds - e.g Dixon of Dock Green. The David Hamilton TOTP shown on BBC4, and that wonderful Linda Lewis clip mentioned recently in the music section are all in watchable condition.
It's irrelevant now but who knows what other goodies may have been saved if TV companies had been more open about their wiping/junking, and not waited for a quarter of a century to own up to their mistakes. The 2001 BBC treasure hunt appeal was worthwhile but a bit late in the day.
|
|
|
Post by Peter Stirling on Apr 11, 2022 21:26:16 GMT
Some domestic video recordings have been included on BBC dvds - e.g Dixon of Dock Green. And the David Hamilton TOTP shown on BBC4, and that wonderful Linda Lewis clip mentioned recently in the music section are all in watchable condition. It's irrelevant now but who knows what other goodies may have been saved if TV companies had been more open about their wiping/junking, and not waited for a quarter of a century to own up to their mistakes. The 2001 BBC treasure hunt appeal was worthwhile but a bit late in the day. In the case of Armchair Theatre they were making so many in the 60s that a few of them never even got shown - these actually survived because they took a different route to the transmitted ones.
|
|
|
Post by T Morgan on Apr 26, 2022 18:52:07 GMT
I don't think there's much urgency now. My experience has been broadcasters only want material if a programme is in the works. Also all these things that are spotted on YouTube... How often is there an attempt to obtain the original VHS tape? Of course by now many of those tapes will have undergone a poor transfer to DVD or digital file and been disposed of, with no opportunity for something better in terms of picture and sound. So the "junking" of VHS has been another missed opportunity with no urgency. A vast amount of local ITV programming has been lost and regional BBC too. Not sure when the BBC began saving full programmes of regional news. Maybe it still doesn't. Some local news presenters effectively had their entire career wiped. The 16mm film reports exist in some cases. But think of all the studio interviews. That was local history... I made a Contributor Access request to the BBC last year, and they didn't have some late 1970s programmes from North East region. Although I have a feeling the programmes may be held locally in Newcastle, just not in the central archives.
|
|
|
Post by garygraham on May 2, 2022 21:33:03 GMT
I don't think there's much urgency now. My experience has been broadcasters only want material if a programme is in the works. Also all these things that are spotted on YouTube... How often is there an attempt to obtain the original VHS tape? Of course by now many of those tapes will have undergone a poor transfer to DVD or digital file and been disposed of, with no opportunity for something better in terms of picture and sound. So the "junking" of VHS has been another missed opportunity with no urgency. A vast amount of local ITV programming has been lost and regional BBC too. Not sure when the BBC began saving full programmes of regional news. Maybe it still doesn't. Some local news presenters effectively had their entire career wiped. The 16mm film reports exist in some cases. But think of all the studio interviews. That was local history... I made a Contributor Access request to the BBC last year, and they didn't have some late 1970s programmes from North East region. Although I have a feeling the programmes may be held locally in Newcastle, just not in the central archives. I was told by a researcher that the BBC has almost nothing in terms of studio material from most of the Mike Neville Look North era. I took that to mean before the late 1980s.
|
|
|
Post by T Morgan on May 2, 2022 22:45:34 GMT
Yes, they were Mike Neville programmes. That's a shame if so.
A friend of mine was featured on a Scottish regional magazine TV programme in 1980. I think his segment survives perhaps because it was made on film - the rest of the programme doesn't seem to exist, I guess because it was taped in the studio.
|
|
|
Post by markboulton on May 3, 2022 17:21:00 GMT
Yes, they were Mike Neville programmes. That's a shame if so. A friend of mine was featured on a Scottish regional magazine TV programme in 1980. I think his segment survives perhaps because it was made on film - the rest of the programme doesn't seem to exist, I guess because it was taped in the studio. Not *taped* in the studio, *broadcast* from the studio. With regional news, no taping goes, or went, on. Sadly. Except on special occasions. Except for duty log tapes on domestic format for 30 days, on tapes on a monthly rotation. Pretty much every BBC and ITV region have never had a policy to record regional news as broadcast for keeps.
|
|
|
Post by T Morgan on May 4, 2022 12:31:00 GMT
Yes, they were Mike Neville programmes. That's a shame if so. A friend of mine was featured on a Scottish regional magazine TV programme in 1980. I think his segment survives perhaps because it was made on film - the rest of the programme doesn't seem to exist, I guess because it was taped in the studio. Not *taped* in the studio, *broadcast* from the studio. With regional news, no taping goes, or went, on. Sadly. Except on special occasions. Except for duty log tapes on domestic format for 30 days, on tapes on a monthly rotation. Pretty much every BBC and ITV region have never had a policy to record regional news as broadcast for keeps. Well, the programme I'm talking about wasn't regional news - it was an arts series called Spectrum. Perhaps the non-filmed sections of the programme went out live from the studio (though I doubt it personally). I wonder if the filmed insert is from pre-production, as it doesn't have any on-screen graphics (ie. captions for interviewees).
|
|
|
Post by simoncurtis on May 11, 2022 22:23:12 GMT
So the "junking" of VHS has been another missed opportunity with no urgency. A vast amount of local ITV programming has been lost and regional BBC too. Not sure when the BBC began saving full programmes of regional news. Maybe it still doesn't. Some local news presenters effectively had their entire career wiped. The 16mm film reports exist in some cases. But think of all the studio interviews. That was local history...[/quote] I do feel that the wiping of regional news items (social history) is a much bigger disaster than e.g. two episodes of Dads Army Who knows how many domestic recordings were binned by peeps who had no idea they had the only copy in existence.
|
|
|
Post by Peter Stirling on May 12, 2022 8:43:42 GMT
So the "junking" of VHS has been another missed opportunity with no urgency. A vast amount of local ITV programming has been lost and regional BBC too. Not sure when the BBC began saving full programmes of regional news. Maybe it still doesn't. Some local news presenters effectively had their entire career wiped. The 16mm film reports exist in some cases. But think of all the studio interviews. That was local history... I do feel that the wiping of regional news items (social history) is a much bigger disaster than e.g. two episodes of Dads Army Who knows how many domestic recordings were binned by peeps who had no idea they had the only copy in existence. [/quote] The thing about news is that it obviously dates very quickly and nobody seems interested in the trivial items of the past.. would say a recorded interview of the Sidcup council defending their public toilets closure program in 1986 warrant being kept? The great news docs of the past like 'Man Alive' and 'World in Action' have hundreds of programmes in the archive but most of them have had their time which has now been and gone, they generate very little interest today.
|
|
|
Post by garygraham on May 18, 2022 4:00:34 GMT
Perhaps it depends on where you live? In areas that are almost never represented on more mainstream TV, local news may be of more value? Also British Pathe might disagree! There's enormous interest in all aspects of local history. Besides showing whatever a story is about, location reports show street scenes, people, clothing, vehicles. These are things that historians and researchers are interested in.
|
|
|
Post by Peter Stirling on May 18, 2022 10:03:07 GMT
Perhaps it depends on where you live? In areas that are almost never represented on more mainstream TV, local news may be of more value? Also British Pathe might disagree! There's enormous interest in all aspects of local history. Besides showing whatever a story is about, location reports show street scenes, people, clothing, vehicles. These are things that historians and researchers are interested in. Oh yes I understand that but I was thinking more of the studio recordings where 'say' a local councillor might have been invited in to defend the traffic restrictions on Bloggs St. next Thursday. In a world where we cannot save everything (due to storage, in house politics and economic factors) I would have rather they sacrificed those sorts of items before anything else. I was pleased the East Midlands Archive rescued the ATV news archive ..I got to see 'Aunty' Jean Morton..which meant a lot to me but to anybody born in this century, it was just a woman in a zoo with Cliff 'who?' Richard.
|
|