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Post by ianphillips on Nov 8, 2016 1:56:37 GMT
With a new animation coming out and the season for any potential announcements having come, I am curious to determine the mood on this. Do you think that there are still missing episodes that exist somewhere in the world (that includes any episodes the BBC may currently have, but have not announced yet) other than WOF3? This can be 1 or 97. Do you think that there are still episodes to be found?
I for one think that there is at least one, with an absolute maximum of 27 (The other two Nigerian serials because we found Enemy and Web, the season 1s because they were highly distributed, and eight additional slots for any wildcard prints held by collectors). However, I highly doubt that the final tally will be anywhere near that number.
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Post by Vaughan Stanger on Nov 8, 2016 13:49:08 GMT
With a new animation coming out and the season for any potential announcements having come, I am curious to determine the mood on this. Do you think that there are still missing episodes that exist somewhere in the world (that includes any episodes the BBC may currently have, but have not announced yet) other than WOF3? This can be 1 or 97. Do you think that there are still episodes to be found? I for one think that there is at least one, with an absolute maximum of 27 (The other two Nigerian serials because we found Enemy and Web, the season 1s because they were highly distributed, and eight additional slots for any wildcard prints held by collectors). However, I highly doubt that the final tally will be anywhere near that number. I broadly agree, Ian. I'd add The Crusade to your list, as Season 2 was quite widely sold too, but I'd be surprised if there are as many as eight in collectors' hands. So yes, mid-20s is probably the top end of what is credible in terms of future returns. More likely we'll see a few to ten, mostly from seasons 1, 2 & 5. If Phil M. (or anyone else, for that matter) can prove me to be overly pessimistic in that assessment, have at it!
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Post by Krisander T. Weum on Nov 8, 2016 14:51:46 GMT
I think 96 of 97 of those Missing Episodes are out there somewhere (The only one completely gone is The Daleks' Masterplan Ep. 7) I bet that atleast 45% of those Missing Episodes are in peoples homes all over The United Kingdom and probably most of them without their knowing, probably many of them who has those missing episodes in the attic from their parents or grandparents that may have bought the episodes from other sellers around that time and have just put the episodes in the attic without knowing that BBC has lost them. Many of them probably have them knowingly and don't even know that they're missing.
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Post by Dylan Heath on Nov 8, 2016 18:37:44 GMT
I think there are probably more out there, doesn't mean we'll ever get them though. There's probably a few in private hands which is either knowingly or unknowingly kept from us. But again this is speculation and of course it's very possible we've exhausted the well, we simply don't know. Although if stuff older than Doctor Who like The Avengers can still be found in 2016 it certainly puts a few more within the realm of possibility.
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Post by martinjwills on Nov 8, 2016 19:54:18 GMT
We know there may be others out there in the Uk, DMP episode 4, that went missing from Blue Peter is probably one of them. Other DMPs could also have escaped along with the 3 have turned up/been returned over the years.
A few years ago we said on here that there is a number N which equals the actual number of missing episodes that survive in a recoverable state, which we know in 2013 was at least 10 [of which 9 were returned] and if Web3 still exists is at least 1 at the moment. The gap between returns cannot be used as an indication, as we went through long gaps and then had 11 returned within 1 year. Or the 2nd Doctor episodes being harder to find as 10 of the 11 were 2nd Doctor episodes.
The reports of digging up the desert and finding film cans may bring hope too.
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Post by lousingh on Nov 8, 2016 23:04:02 GMT
I know many people here don't believe me, but remember that I *know* that several minutes of missing episodes are in private hands; hence, I am far more optimistic than most. Based on rumours I had heard from several sources (some of whom are my best hockey and political rumour sources), I infer that the people in question actually have the entirety of the episodes in question. (Indeed, one of them blundered by seemingly admitting to the possession of one when he was defending "The Twin Dilemma" in his fanzine.)
Outside of those who are hoarding for reasons of greed, picking up females at cons (you read that right), and just plain meanness, I agree with those who believe that there are many probably sitting in cans that are gathering dust in people's homes.
Now, if you believe the rumours that used to float around that BBC employees used to take home film that they were supposed to destroy, then you probably believe that a large number of episodes can be recovered. I have no feel for the veracity of these claims, one way or the other.
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Post by Robert Lia on Nov 8, 2016 23:43:54 GMT
I know many people here don't believe me, but remember that I *know* that several minutes of missing episodes are in private hands; hence, I am far more optimistic than most. Based on rumours I had heard from several sources (some of whom are my best hockey and political rumour sources), I infer that the people in question actually have the entirety of the episodes in question. (Indeed, one of them blundered by seemingly admitting to the possession of one when he was defending "The Twin Dilemma" in his fanzine.) Outside of those who are hoarding for reasons of greed, picking up females at cons (you read that right), and just plain meanness, I agree with those who believe that there are many probably sitting in cans that are gathering dust in people's homes. Now, if you believe the rumours that used to float around that BBC employees used to take home film that they were supposed to destroy, then you probably believe that a large number of episodes can be recovered. I have no feel for the veracity of these claims, one way or the other. So Since you "know" that footage is in private hands why not tell us exactly "which footage" is in private hands as for the part about picking up woman at cons I attended conventions when I was a young buck in the 1980's and never once did I wave a camera copy of any episode of Dr. Who at a chick and have them jump in bed with me. In fact I am laughing just thinking that I could have said hey baby I got an NTSC camera copy of Arc of Infinity wanna come up to my room and lay on the bed and watch it
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Post by Richard Tipple on Nov 9, 2016 0:39:19 GMT
I know many people here don't believe me, but remember that I *know* that several minutes of missing episodes are in private hands; hence, I am far more optimistic than most. Based on rumours I had heard from several sources (some of whom are my best hockey and political rumour sources), I infer that the people in question actually have the entirety of the episodes in question. (Indeed, one of them blundered by seemingly admitting to the possession of one when he was defending "The Twin Dilemma" in his fanzine.) Outside of those who are hoarding for reasons of greed, picking up females at cons (you read that right), and just plain meanness, I agree with those who believe that there are many probably sitting in cans that are gathering dust in people's homes. Now, if you believe the rumours that used to float around that BBC employees used to take home film that they were supposed to destroy, then you probably believe that a large number of episodes can be recovered. I have no feel for the veracity of these claims, one way or the other. So Since you "know" that footage is in private hands why not tell us exactly "which footage" is in private hands as for the part about picking up woman at cons I attended conventions when I was a young buck in the 1980's and never once did I wave a camera copy of any episode of Dr. Who at a chick and have them jump in bed with me. In fact I am laughing just thinking that I could have said hey baby I got an NTSC camera copy of Arc of Infinity wanna come up to my room and lay on the bed and watch it A sort of 80's, 'Marco' and chill?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 0:47:30 GMT
On the recent Newsnight story on missing TV, it was mentioned how heartbreaking it is to know that missing episodes are in private collectors hands and that they won't part with them for whatever reason.
I wonder which episodes he was referring to?
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Post by Robert Lia on Nov 9, 2016 0:53:58 GMT
More to the point which series he was referring to I did not hear him say Dr. Who ?
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Post by Darren Jones on Nov 9, 2016 1:23:55 GMT
Personally, I believe there are missing episodes still out there waiting to be discovered, there could be 97 or the could be 0. However, as we can never prove an unknown, we will never know for certain if the latest find is the last extant episode in existence or if there are more to be discovered.
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Post by emjayf on Nov 9, 2016 1:46:45 GMT
Yes, but only as you can't prove a negative. Plus it's better to live in hope. I'd love them to find some of the stories with no telesnaps as they feel more lost!
Mj
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Post by Sue Butcher on Nov 9, 2016 2:58:47 GMT
I'd say at least a dozen more from the 1975 ABC returns in private collections, a nice even number because we know that reels always travel in pairs. But I'm just saying that, it's nothing more than a hunch; this stuff was being binned at a time when Who was at a peak of popularity, and plenty of people like to look in bins for interesting throw-outs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 11:52:34 GMT
Priceless! Is anyone on here interested in coming out with me to some nightclubs in Bristol this weekend with a hidden camera to see if the claim of having Doctor Who missing episodes works as a chat-up line? We could post the filmed results on youtube, and even get the link published on the Who Tube page of Doctor Who Magazine! Here's a sample of the questions we could ask: "Do you want me to show you The Bell of Doom?"
"Seriously, I've got The Mighty Kublai Khan..."
"I promise, I'll give you Four Hundred Dawns."
"Do you want a night of Jaffa?"
"No, I said The Dancing Floor, not the dance floor..."
"Have any of you heard of The Sea Beggar?"
"My place, I've got The Feast of Steven waiting for you all..."
"Yep, it's the one where Hartnell turns to the camera and wishes everyone at home a happy Christmas!"
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Post by John Wall on Nov 9, 2016 15:26:33 GMT
I suspect there are a few in private collections, but the owner isn't aware of their significance - like UM2 and Airlock. What worries me is that film collectors are likely to be ageing and I worry that the collection will just be dumped when they die.
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