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Post by ianphillips on Sept 9, 2016 18:22:23 GMT
So with all of the talk of the Power of the Daleks animation, many people are considering what will be animated next. I was thinking about that and I mentioned on another thread how I doubted they would do The Abominable Snowmen or The Wheel in Space (at least initially) because both episodes had been sent to Nigeria with Enemy and Web and thus stand a good chance of still existing. If we did find both of those serials complete and Phil Morris recovers Web three then the only missing episode from season 5 (Barring the two Ice Warrior episodes) would be Fury from the Deep. It's known that Nigeria never bought Fury from the Deep because of complications with New Zealand, but Snowmen, Enemy, Web, Fury, and Wheel were all in Singapore. Could it be possible that Singapore accidentally included Fury in the shipment and sent it to Singapore? Then, realizing their mistake too late, Singapore took the nearest empty cans, labelled them Fury from the Deep and put a random film inside to cover their tracks, hoping that the BBC wouldn't look inside when they got them back. It evidently worked and no one from the BBC looked inside the cans to ensure that Fury really was in there and sent them straight to the junkings. But they didn't get away totally clean as a BBC employee rescued four episodes of the Ice Warriors and one of the cans for Fury from the Deep and stashed them in the Villiers' House for ten years before someone cleaned it out and found the cans.
I know that I totally made up this scenario, but it could have happened and it would explain the mystery of the Fury 6 film can. What do you all think is the actual likelihood of this happening?
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Post by scotttelfer on Sept 9, 2016 19:08:41 GMT
It's possible, but that's very different from it actually happening.
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Post by cjones on Sept 9, 2016 20:07:21 GMT
It's an imaginative theory, but I think the chances of it being true are slim to none. There's no warrant for it - or to put it another way, there's no reason to assume it happened like that. As you say, it's just a theory.
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Post by simonashby on Sept 9, 2016 20:33:00 GMT
Straws. Grasping.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 10, 2016 4:50:46 GMT
Mmm, I seem to remember similar comments about my thread a few years ago asking about the story of Yeti episodes being shown in a Cinema in Nigeria. Oh & don't forget that Web and Enemy were both found at a relay station where they had no real business to be. You just never know and there is always a slim chance that you could be bang on the money. Let's hope you are and we find out soon!
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Post by Will Weller on Sept 10, 2016 8:49:53 GMT
Mmm, I seem to remember similar comments about my thread a few years ago asking about the story of Yeti episodes being shown in a Cinema in Nigeria. Oh & don't forget that Web and Enemy were both found at a relay station where they had no real business to be. You just never know and there is always a slim chance that you could be bang on the money. Let's hope you are and we find out soon! Was the Yeti story reportedly shown in the cinema in Nigeria Snowmen or Web? Phil M mentioned it at Starburst, but he didn't say which story (unless I wasn't paying attention)
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Post by martinjwills on Sept 10, 2016 9:05:44 GMT
Mmm, I seem to remember similar comments about my thread a few years ago asking about the story of Yeti episodes being shown in a Cinema in Nigeria. Oh & don't forget that Web and Enemy were both found at a relay station where they had no real business to be. You just never know and there is always a slim chance that you could be bang on the money. Let's hope you are and we find out soon! Was the Yeti story reportedly shown in the cinema in Nigeria Snowmen or Web? Phil M mentioned it at Starburst, but he didn't say which story (unless I wasn't paying attention) If Web had been on the shelves at Jos Relay Station, since it was last broadcast, it would be likely that Snowmen would have been the one shown at the cinema
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Post by scotttelfer on Sept 10, 2016 10:11:35 GMT
Mmm, I seem to remember similar comments about my thread a few years ago asking about the story of Yeti episodes being shown in a Cinema in Nigeria. Oh & don't forget that Web and Enemy were both found at a relay station where they had no real business to be. You just never know and there is always a slim chance that you could be bang on the money. Let's hope you are and we find out soon! Was the Yeti story reportedly shown in the cinema in Nigeria Snowmen or Web? Phil M mentioned it at Starburst, but he didn't say which story (unless I wasn't paying attention) I would assume Snowmen. They have no way of knowing though. It was a few decades ago so besides "Yeti" the guy may not have known what it was. From what was said at Starburst he doesn't seem to know what happened to Snowmen, quite the mystery.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 10, 2016 11:50:33 GMT
Was the Yeti story reportedly shown in the cinema in Nigeria Snowmen or Web? Phil M mentioned it at Starburst, but he didn't say which story (unless I wasn't paying attention) I would assume Snowmen. They have no way of knowing though. It was a few decades ago so besides "Yeti" the guy may not have known what it was. From what was said at Starburst he doesn't seem to know what happened to Snowmen, quite the mystery. Assuming it was Snowmen that played, could it still be at the cinema?
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 10, 2016 11:56:36 GMT
I think the story was the showings were in the early 80's near Lagos (?) and possibly Snowmen. I like the synchronicity of writing in Wales about a lost set of films watched in Nigeria, about Tibet, filmed in Wales!
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Post by scotttelfer on Sept 10, 2016 13:31:49 GMT
I would assume Snowmen. They have no way of knowing though. It was a few decades ago so besides "Yeti" the guy may not have known what it was. From what was said at Starburst he doesn't seem to know what happened to Snowmen, quite the mystery. Assuming it was Snowmen that played, could it still be at the cinema? Possibly, although somewhat unlikely. After all, Philip Morris has spoken to this person. He'll know which cinema it was. If it's still around it has probably disappeared into a private collection, perhaps an employee with an interest in old films. As this is still an area being actively searched we can only hope that something turns up, even if its only a couple of episodes.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Sept 10, 2016 14:52:58 GMT
So with all of the talk of the Power of the Daleks animation, many people are considering what will be animated next. I was thinking about that and I mentioned on another thread how I doubted they would do The Abominable Snowmen or The Wheel in Space (at least initially) because both episodes had been sent to Nigeria with Enemy and Web and thus stand a good chance of still existing. If we did find both of those serials complete and Phil Morris recovers Web three then the only missing episode from season 5 (Barring the two Ice Warrior episodes) would be Fury from the Deep. It's known that Nigeria never bought Fury from the Deep because of complications with New Zealand, but Snowmen, Enemy, Web, Fury, and Wheel were all in Singapore. Could it be possible that Singapore accidentally included Fury in the shipment and sent it to Singapore? Then, realizing their mistake too late, Singapore took the nearest empty cans, labelled them Fury from the Deep and put a random film inside to cover their tracks, hoping that the BBC wouldn't look inside when they got them back. It evidently worked and no one from the BBC looked inside the cans to ensure that Fury really was in there and sent them straight to the junkings. But they didn't get away totally clean as a BBC employee rescued four episodes of the Ice Warriors and one of the cans for Fury from the Deep and stashed them in the Villiers' House for ten years before someone cleaned it out and found the cans. I know that I totally made up this scenario, but it could have happened and it would explain the mystery of the Fury 6 film can. What do you all think is the actual likelihood of this happening? So from this theory are a few mysteries that we have always pondered about on these boards: 1) What happened to the Fury copy sent to Singapore? 2) Why was the Fury can at Villier's empty? 3) Is it or is it not coincidence that the two stories New Zealand rejected from that block were found together? 4) Did Nigeria receive anything other than the four stories they bought? What you did was inventively try to tie them all together to create one answer. I think when trying to ascertain an answer from something we've got little information for, you shouldn't try to put them together like puzzle pieces and hope they fit. I do admit though that it is fun to think about. Some points I'd like to make: Phil Morris nicely described at Starburst that the path the films took once they left London isn't straightforward. He brings up the example of the "Reign of Terror" that should not have been in Cyprus. Furthermore, we have no idea as to what paths Audition copies took. So the question as to what happened to the Fury copy is up in the air. Phil is keeping things close to his chest, but he has been much more lax about describing Nigeria since his work there is largely finished. He let us know that Yeti could have been screened in a cinema and that Wheel was sent to a station in Lagos. He's even described the movement of film in the country. But he hasn't said anything about Ice Warriors or Fury of the Deep having been sent there. Perhaps that's information he's keeping quiet about, or perhaps he just simply didn't find anything there. (That would be a great question to ask him the next time he does a Q&A) The empty Fury can at Villiers is odd. However I would postulate this theory over others: Doctor Who is junked in 1974 and four Ice Warrior cans are not touched during the junking because they were accidentally overlooked. The Fury cans are kept as backup cans for various film projects. Something is stuffed into the Fury can because they needed a can. A clean up of Villiers is ordered. Someone finds random Doctor Who episodes they don't know what to do with. They stick them in the back of a cupboard until found in 1988. I don't find it odd that the two serials we found cans for are the same two stories that were rejected by New Zealand. The probability of those two being together is the same probability that Evil of the Daleks and Faceless ones are found together or that Galaxy 4 and Underwater Menace are found together. Simply: They were found together, and there is nothing strange about that. Furthermore, we know that Villiers had all the serials from War Machines to Wheel in Space and more.
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Post by simonashby on Sept 10, 2016 15:35:04 GMT
Mmm, I seem to remember similar comments about my thread a few years ago asking about the story of Yeti episodes being shown in a Cinema in Nigeria. Oh & don't forget that Web and Enemy were both found at a relay station where they had no real business to be. You just never know and there is always a slim chance that you could be bang on the money. Let's hope you are and we find out soon! That makes no sense. What is true is that anything could have happened. The theory here is pretty specific. People create elaborate theories to comfort themselves, hence what I said.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 10, 2016 18:04:12 GMT
Mmm, I seem to remember similar comments about my thread a few years ago asking about the story of Yeti episodes being shown in a Cinema in Nigeria. Oh & don't forget that Web and Enemy were both found at a relay station where they had no real business to be. You just never know and there is always a slim chance that you could be bang on the money. Let's hope you are and we find out soon! That makes no sense. What is true is that anything could have happened. The theory here is pretty specific. People create elaborate theories to comfort themselves, hence what I said. Maybe so and I appreciate where you are coming from but sometimes "out of the box thinking" however unlikely, can end up being surprisingly accurate.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 10, 2016 20:08:30 GMT
By the way, the reason that I chose Fury for this theory is because it was the only gap in an otherwise consecutive shipment of episodes to Nigeria so when Singapore was told to ship Enemy, Web, Snowmen, and Wheel they could easily have grabbed every episode from Snowmen 1 to Wheel 6 never realizing that they weren't supposed to send Fury with the other 4, or maybe they did notice that Fury wasn't included and thought it had been left off of the list by mistake. As many people have said over the years, communication was really, really bad on the bicycling chains so something like this happening isn't that far fetched.
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