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Post by ianphillips on Jul 17, 2016 23:10:03 GMT
This is a question for all you people who saw the original broadcast of the Tenth Planet Part 4. What was your initial reaction when you saw William Hartnell turn into Patrick Troughton, and what was your first impression of Troughton when you realized he was the new Doctor?
Also, unrelated question, but talking about the first few episodes of Troughton, I watched the Loose Cannon Reconstruction of it recently, and I thought I heard a baby crying right in the middle of the climax scene. Am I just imagining things or did the person who recorded it in 1966 pick up his child's crying. If so, is that the only recording of Power 6, or is there another without the crying?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Jul 18, 2016 3:01:05 GMT
I saw this on 3 November 1969, when it aired in Auckland, New Zealand. I was five. I remember being quite 'scared' by the evil looking face with dark hair that suddenly appeared out of the white flash of light. (At least that's what it looked like to me!)
When I tuned in the following week for The Power of the Daleks 1, I remember thinking "oh that's right, he changed". Apart from the shot of the Doctor looking in the mirror and seeing Hartnell's face, I have no recollection whatsoever of the rest of the story.
But I have clear and fond memories of The Moonbase, The Macra Terror, The Evil of the Daleks, The Tomb of the Cybermen, The Web of Fear and The Wheel in Space. I remember asking my brothers who they like d the best. I responded with 'the one with black hair. He has better monsters'.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 18, 2016 10:04:16 GMT
Also, unrelated question, but talking about the first few episodes of Troughton, I watched the Loose Cannon Reconstruction of it recently, and I thought I heard a baby crying right in the middle of the climax scene. Am I just imagining things or did the person who recorded it in 1966 pick up his child's crying. If so, is that the only recording of Power 6, or is there another without the crying? The baby is in the story, being held by one of the colonists as the Daleks are destroyed.  |
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Post by tom rogers on Jul 18, 2016 10:17:08 GMT
Now that is just great, Richard! Saved me from having to load up and listen to the recon. However, since it is already at hand ...  |
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Jul 18, 2016 10:31:06 GMT
Also, unrelated question, but talking about the first few episodes of Troughton, I watched the Loose Cannon Reconstruction of it recently, and I thought I heard a baby crying right in the middle of the climax scene. Am I just imagining things or did the person who recorded it in 1966 pick up his child's crying. If so, is that the only recording of Power 6, or is there another without the crying? The baby is in the story, being held by one of the colonists as the Daleks are destroyed. What's the baby's name and have you been in touch yet to see if (s)he was given one of the episodes as a christening present? Richard |
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Post by John W King on Jul 18, 2016 20:53:10 GMT
I was 12 in 1966. I watched Dr Who avidly from episode 1 and by Marco Polo was making notes of each episode in a little blue book. I read in a newspaper in September ? that the Doctor was to change to Patrick Troughton and knew it would happen by the end of Tenth Planet. Episode 4 seemed a bit rushed. Ben and Polly rescued Hartnell. Into Tardis. Dematerialisation noise. Hartnell's face going white. Titles. Emotionally I felt unhappy that my hero was gone.
Next week sat down with anticipation. Everything moved so fast. Scene with Troughton's reflection changing back to Hartnell. Rummaging in the chest. Irritated by that ruddy recorder. I felt the whole thing was ridiculous. I weas fighting back tears. THEY had destroyed my favourite programme and reduced it to childish rubbish. My emotions and deep disappointment have affected my usually sharp memory. Then we outside on Vulcan. The Doctor was now so different to Hartnell it really was a shock. This was NOT my beloved Doctor. Troughton was silly. And then in the colony and the Daleks were being stupid. MY programme was being spoilt ruined. But something in the Dalek's eye focussing on the Doctor began to interest me. I had quite a job writing my notes as the episode had so upset me. But...
I sat down and watched next week and gradually Troughton and the story began to win me over. The end of episode 2 where they enter the space craft and see an actual Dalek mutant was riveting and had me gripped. I was even able to draw a fairly accurate picture of the retreating claw. By the end of Power of the Daleks I was being won over by Troughton. I found the Highlanders a bit patchy and again had trouble making notes. As for the Underwater menace I fell asleep for part of episode 2 (Thank God they have now found that episode) In these stories Troughton was very much up and down and still looking for his character. From the Moonbase he really started to get into his stride and treat the part more seriously. By the end of the War Games I loved Him. He was a truly superb actor who I first saw and enjoyed in Paul of Tarsus (when will that come out on DVD?) We MUST have Power recovered so that people can see how he changed with time but also so we really can all appreciate what he did to save Doctor Who. His first 3 stories are a bit of a blur to me. The release of Underwater Menace on DVD was so important for the world to see early Troughton trying to define his Doctor. By the Moonbase he was getting it.
Obviously the two most important episodes to be found are Power 1 and Tenth Planet 4. Closely followed by the rest of Power.
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Post by iankmclachlan on Jul 19, 2016 19:00:19 GMT
Hi John your account is amazing. Your thoughts are very similar to mine. I too was 12/13 in 1966. I was 13 by the time Patrick had taken over. I too had watched from the first episode. I too had the same thoughts when I saw the first episode of Power. Everything you describe I felt too. I too had enjoyed Patrick in Paul of Tarsus, The Old Curiosity Shop and Dr. Finlay's Casebook. While to me Hartnell will always be my favourite Doctor, Troughton is my second favourite. I would really like to seen the missing episodes again. Where we differ is that I never made notes. I did collect the Radio Times articles/castlists and was delighted when 3 novels from the series were published. I did also get TV Comic when Patrick became the Doctor. Something that I had not bought previously but then as I was older then I had more money to spend!
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Post by johnbarbour on Jul 19, 2016 21:25:59 GMT
John (King) what a great repository of memories and information! Stovepipe hats off to you. Wish you'd had a video recorder back then too as you seem to have persevered with the 'diary" throughout the 1960s and could have done away with the need for this pro board (no offence to our companions!). I joined the Doctor partway through Patrick Troughton's era and wish I'd have the presence of mind to do what you did. Anyway feel free to share other notes any time!
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Post by Patrick Coles on Jul 20, 2016 11:17:46 GMT
I recall when 'Power of The Daleks' episode one went out - it was bonfire night saturday 5 November 1966, a wet night night too - our firework party was a joke !
the week before William Hartnell's face had transformed right at the end of the episode - for some reason I felt Patrick Troughton was deputising while Hartnell took a well earned break from the show and that one day he would return (he did in 1973 !)
in the first 'Power' story Pat Troughton's Doctor had just 'rejuvenated' (not regenerated - a key difference) therefore the brain cells and personality were very up and down as his old self had effectively died of sheer old age (something The first Doctor in 'The Tenth Planet' had seemed to know was coming...), in a state of his newly re-energised incarnation he was very playful, quite manic, and utterly enigmatic (remember The First Doctor's wry mocking amusement at Barbara and Ian's shock on entering the Tardis back in 1963) and he clearly enjoyed Polly and Ben's amazement with this strange newcomer's arrival duly referring to "Their" Doctor as 'he' and said how the butterfly cannot ever return to the cocoon ....
I recall he was child like - playing bowls with fruit at the base - BUT he was deadly serious about the Daleks...just as much as his 'old self' ever was...
the show still opened with the same intro - no Doctor's face - then, that all came later, and Polly and Ben shared our astonishment at this strange little jocular figure who was so completely different...yet somehow was STILL the compelling figure to which you were drawn - in that Patrick Troughton's portrayal was quite brilliant, changing so much but crucially retaining a 'shadow' of his unforgettable predecessor re the mystery, the alien quality, a certain 'alien charisma', the unique stance of this central character - indeed it's possible to go back and see moments of earlier first Doctor where William Hartnell is being jokey, eccentic, and acting very much in a manner we associate with Patrick Troughton ! (Jon Pertwee does that a few times later on as well - like when his self made radio explodes in his hands in 'The Sea Devils' etc)
Pat Troughton very quickly simply was 'The Doctor' as the episodes kept coming each week without interruption, and the foes were as strong as ever...
if 'Power' is ever found viewers might be surprised at just how strange the second Doctor acts early on in his era....and it makes you see Colin Baker's Sixth Doctor's debut performance in a new light as he was drawing on Pat Troughton's intro as the blueprint for his so very different Doctor to his predecessor (pity Colin didn't get a story of similar strength to 'Power' to open with)
I recall some younger viewers were very upset by the 'new' Doctor in 1966 writing to 'Junior Points of View' complaining he was nothing like William Hartnell's 'grandfather' figure...it came as a BIG shock to viewers how different the 'strange little man' figure was - shades of later when some Tom Baker fanboys were left crying into their long scarfs...(some still are !)
it is hard to believe such a unique well written and acted imaginative show could end up as it is these days...
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Post by Nick Cooper on Jul 20, 2016 11:53:10 GMT
in the first 'Power' story Pat Troughton's Doctor had just 'rejuvenated' (not regenerated - a key difference) I don't think there is one iota of canonical evidence to support this theory (which in 1982 probably seemed like a good way for the originator of it to argue for an extra regeneration, but that's all). |
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Post by Darren Jones on Jul 21, 2016 0:22:39 GMT
in the first 'Power' story Pat Troughton's Doctor had just 'rejuvenated' (not regenerated - a key difference) I don't think there is one iota of canonical evidence to support this theory (which in 1982 probably seemed like a good way for the originator of it to argue for an extra regeneration, but that's all). If you watch (or in some cases listen) to them all in order, the word 'regeneration' doesn't appear until 'Planet of the Spiders'. So who knows (pun intended) what the production team wanted. |
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Post by Nick Cooper on Jul 21, 2016 10:02:00 GMT
I don't think there is one iota of canonical evidence to support this theory (which in 1982 probably seemed like a good way for the originator of it to argue for an extra regeneration, but that's all). If you watch (or in some cases listen) to them all in order, the word 'regeneration' doesn't appear until 'Planet of the Spiders'. So who knows (pun intended) what the production team wanted. So what? The concept is firmly established now. To try to say that the Hartnell/Troughton and Troughton/Pertwee regenerations aren't actually regenerations because they weren't called that at the time is utterly pointless. |
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Post by johnstewart on Jul 23, 2016 13:11:12 GMT
This is a question for all you people who saw the original broadcast of the Tenth Planet Part 4. What was your initial reaction when you saw William Hartnell turn into Patrick Troughton, and what was your first impression of Troughton when you realized he was the new Doctor? Also, unrelated question, but talking about the first few episodes of Troughton, I watched the Loose Cannon Reconstruction of it recently, and I thought I heard a baby crying right in the middle of the climax scene. Am I just imagining things or did the person who recorded it in 1966 pick up his child's crying. If so, is that the only recording of Power 6, or is there another without the crying? I was reading a Dr Seuss book borrowed from I think my primary school library 'Put me in a zoo' round this time. Recall looking out of the living room window as fireworks were going off; so people even in those days were setting them off on the wrong day. Listening to the audio was surprised the Cybermen had a different extra voice in the last episode. I recall hiding behind a chair which was wood with crimson nylon removable cushion when a Cyberman first appeared. That's O/T but that was my initial reaction with my dad setting off for the night shift or coming back from work turning and laughing. Think the vibe was they were peculiar. My Mum had nylon stockings hung on the airer in the kitchen and following I would imitate the Cyberman face by putting one over my head. The voice kind of rasped in the middle to my mind like a stocking being torn. They first appeared on a stairwell near a curtain I recall. At the end of episode one you see the face of one briefly on film but I did not recall that. It was the second episode where they talk I recalled. After that; the most prominent parts of the last episode in my mind were the bit where the cybermen take the Doctor and Polly away into the Cyberspaceship. I recalled feeling sorry for the Doctor as they were manhandling him as the Daleks had in 'Dalek Invasion of Earth'. By this point I had adopted the sometimes stern Hartnell Doctor as a lovable Grandad figure. He seemed vulnerable. They then clamped the Doctor and Polly in the sinister Cyberchairs. They are briefly in the super 8mm clips. They were austere bare metal chairs with some kind of hairy felt material on the seat I thought. They resembled an electric chair and had similar pin across clamps like 'Dalek Invasion earth'. Think there was one across the neck and one across the hands may be wrong. I also recalled the bit where the TARDIS lights start fading up and down, very eerie. Hartnell seemed to wear the fur hat he wore in early serials most of the way through this episode. You did not see the new Doctor till the next week as the credits came up over the face changing. My reaction to 'Power of the Daleks' the next week was one of confusion and alarm. The Doctor figure suddenly sprung up and there was a shorter younger man acting slightly comically. At this stage though the Troughton doctors humour was funny peculiar rather than funny lovable. He seemed slightly irritating and there was no reassurance that it was the Doctor. Recall Ben and Polly saying 'Where's the Doctor what have you done with him?' Troughton acted suspiciously not admitting it was him and not answering what he had done with the Doctor. He then ignored questions turning his back' and sitting down on a small step looking upwards. I only got into the story when later they found some Daleks in cobwebs in a storage room accessed by a circular fat button. There was then a disturbing sequence on film where a man in a white coat discovered a chemical plant incubating Dalek creatures. It had a similar atmosphere to The Troubleshooters for some reason; (another BBC show similar era). The plant looked like a car factory; and my Auntie did not think the scene where Lesterton pulls a manic face at the Dalek splodges suitable for me. The design for the story was quite austere and grey drab in style. I seem to recall a lot of dialogue being a six parter. It did convert me to liking the Daleks having thought they were boring before. They were handled differently in this story; firstly showing the disturbing Dalek embryos inside the casing; secondly having them fake being robot servants. On inspection now it would have appealed more to the older children and adults as some of it is quite subtle in particular Troughtons later witty comments; and Daleks themselves referring to drinks as 'liquid'. I seem to recall at one point it was stated that the BBC may have intended to keep the story in the film library. Don't know how true that it; but I'd guess that may have been episode 6; made on 35mm film and I believe then junked in 1969. |
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Post by johnstewart on Jul 23, 2016 13:29:50 GMT
Oh and to add to earlier comments I found 'Highlanders' quickly boring. The action started in a park and seemed to be set there and in some woods then on. Following the initial action fighting scene part of which exists; the pace dropped right down. They found a cannon and Troughton's Doctor was trying on hats. The rest of the episode consisted of a group of English soldiers lying behind mounds waiting to shoot. Only one Highlander as I recall ran out. Apart from that they were just lying there talking.
The other scene showed a studio interior to a small stone and wood hut at the bottom of a hill. The new character Jamie kept looking through a small square window poised to fight. An old man with grey hair and a kilt lay on a straw and slab type bed with a blanket over him; in a fever. Jamie would mop his brow. The pace was dreadfully slow. I think I turned off till a couple of weeks later. In the further scenes I saw I couldn't work out why the English soldiers were all portrayed as cold b*st*rd types. very cruel. I got bored with it however then as a result missed I think most if not all of episode one of 'Moonbase'. I liked the monster when you saw it but of course didn't know was a Cyberman till they said as they had been radically redesigned.
The monster in 'Underwater menace' remained hidden most of the time. That was another one I missed a lot of i think including the fish men themselves. One appears at the end of the first episode then they disappear until one scene in episode 3. Was easy to miss them. I seem to recall vaguely the finding of the Olympic symbol in a cave then got bored with it.
The next serial I had to switch bits off of for different reason. Though an older child might find them unconvincing with the slime, fog, darkness and eerie music; the Macra were too scary for a young child. In addition they had torch like eyes which lit up and these horrid giant hairy claws they squeezed people with. I was already spooked by the giant crabs I saw hung on hooks at Southsea so even bigger ones that attacked people were a nightmare. Watched the first episode could not get anyone to watch it with me so turned off till the last or so. I recall Jamie fighting off one squeezing him with a timber beam. Then Ben and Polly calling from a door at the end of a mine tunnel with cobwebs over the screen. That one was all quite disturbing. 'Faceless ones' was too underplayed for the small kids. Again they kept the monster hidden and disguised in humanoid form. there was a flash at the end of episode one and the next weeks beginning. Then they appeared later on. However I only switched back on for the end of the last one as it looked like a non monster serial. For the older kids that would be fine but not for me. It dovetailed into 'Evil of the Daleks' at the end. That was exciting as I worried about the TARDIS being stolen and how they would get it back. On British screens the end fad out faded back up to a preview of next weeks Dr Who episode one of 'Evil'. Again that story showed Daleks in a new way. In a Victorian house, turned into comedic friendly daleks; and battling their Black Commanders with the guts spilling out on screen. And like the Cyber controller you had a high ranking division with the gigantic Emperor in it's cave set.
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Post by johnstewart on Jul 23, 2016 13:32:57 GMT
P.S. 'Moonbase' was the story in which the Doctor finally came to settle in. They watered down the look and manner to make him more subtly witty and intellectual. The Doctor also gradually became sympathetic and lovable which can be largely seen from 'Abominable snowmen' onwards.
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