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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Aug 15, 2014 9:09:51 GMT
Two interesting bits of information regarding the Drake ‘Octopus’ appearance have been posted on the NickDrake.com forum. The ‘Time Out’ article from 1970 that I included in my original post here also appears in a photograph in the new book compiled by the Estate of Nick Drake titled ‘Remembered for a While’. Maybe they’ve taken steps to acquire the clip (if it still exists). One forum member heard Drake’s producer Joe Boyd state that he has a memory of seeing the Drake clip, but not in the Granada area. Perhaps a telerecording or a recording made on an early domestic video recorder may exist. The programme wasn’t networked. I’ve checked ‘TV Times’ listings from March 1970 for almost all of the ITV regions and I couldn’t find any evidence that ‘Octopus’ was shown by any company other than Granada. Unfortunately I haven’t got access to any 1970 editions of ‘TV Times’ from the Granada region itself. They probably contain some interesting further information about ‘Octopus’.
This sounds like a job for William!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 11:27:51 GMT
Also maybe someone who has access to Joe Boyd could maybe clarify with him what he saw and where / when. This might even provide a lead to go on regarding the current whereabouts of the clip (if there still is one). Stranger things have happened!
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 15, 2014 17:58:51 GMT
Two interesting bits of information regarding the Drake ‘Octopus’ appearance have been posted on the NickDrake.com forum. The ‘Time Out’ article from 1970 that I included in my original post here also appears in a photograph in the new book compiled by the Estate of Nick Drake titled ‘Remembered for a While’. Maybe they’ve taken steps to acquire the clip (if it still exists). One forum member heard Drake’s producer Joe Boyd state that he has a memory of seeing the Drake clip, but not in the Granada area. Perhaps a telerecording or a recording made on an early domestic video recorder may exist. The programme wasn’t networked. I’ve checked ‘TV Times’ listings from March 1970 for almost all of the ITV regions and I couldn’t find any evidence that ‘Octopus’ was shown by any company other than Granada. Unfortunately I haven’t got access to any 1970 editions of ‘TV Times’ from the Granada region itself. They probably contain some interesting further information about ‘Octopus’.
This sounds like a job for William!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, I've looked through my TV Times on disc and they are mostly all the Anglia region which did'nt show 'Octopus' it did'nt even give the Granada region details. I also could'nt find any mention of 'Octopus' in the NME TV articles. But I will keep looking! cheers William
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Post by markdixon on Aug 16, 2014 19:31:52 GMT
I managed to view Granada editions of the ‘TV Times’ from 1970. Sadly they don’t list the names of any guests who appeared on ‘Octopus’ and there is no indication of the exact content of individual shows. I can tell you that the programme ran from 7 January 1970-29 July 1970 and that there were 25 episodes. There weren’t any editions broadcast on 29 April and 6 May. The show also took a break for the first 3 weeks of June because ‘World Cup ‘70’ was broadcast instead. Here’s the listing for the first show:
‘Andrew Fisher introduces a new programme in which the accent is on ideas. It deals with ideas about traffic, architecture, science – and even ideas about ideas. Get the idea! Look in –you will!’
Only a few of the listings mention that music was a part of the programme. Here’s one from 18 March:
‘What is happening in the worlds of art and music? Octopus keeps abreast of the trends and looks at forecasts for the future’.
The presenters were Andrew Fisher, Sue Woodford, Jim Walker and Chris Kelly. Directors included John Downie. Producers were Nick Elliot and Brian Winston. Executive producer was Mike Scott. I mention these names because they show that the programme was part of Granada’s news/current affairs output. Woodford and Kelly were also presenters on Granada’s regional news programme ‘Newsview’ during 1970 and Walker was a researcher on the current affairs show ‘On Site’ (which featured Ray Gosling). The musical performances on ‘Octopus’ were probably regarded as just one aspect of the show by its producers.
This link with news/current affairs makes me think that the show might have been produced in the same manner as a regional news programme. I suspect it was broadcast live each week and maybe recordings were only made of a few representative editions. The programme makers probably videotaped musical performances in the studio in advance whenever performers were unable to appear on the live transmission (e.g. Nick Drake). It might not have been common practice to keep these VT inserts after they had been transmitted. The show was low budget so maybe they couldn’t afford to film many location reports. It could be the case that the film inserts listed on ‘ITN Source’ are the only ones that were filmed for the programme.
I think therefore that the Drake performance from ‘Octopus’ will have survived if the VT insert is still around somewhere in the archives or if that edition was lucky enough to be recorded as a representative example of the programme. There is also the possibility that Drake’s management requested a telerecording to be made of the performance.
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 16, 2014 20:10:59 GMT
Two interesting bits of information regarding the Drake ‘Octopus’ appearance have been posted on the NickDrake.com forum. The ‘Time Out’ article from 1970 that I included in my original post here also appears in a photograph in the new book compiled by the Estate of Nick Drake titled ‘Remembered for a While’. Maybe they’ve taken steps to acquire the clip (if it still exists). One forum member heard Drake’s producer Joe Boyd state that he has a memory of seeing the Drake clip, but not in the Granada area. Perhaps a telerecording or a recording made on an early domestic video recorder may exist. The programme wasn’t networked. I’ve checked ‘TV Times’ listings from March 1970 for almost all of the ITV regions and I couldn’t find any evidence that ‘Octopus’ was shown by any company other than Granada. Unfortunately I haven’t got access to any 1970 editions of ‘TV Times’ from the Granada region itself. They probably contain some interesting further information about ‘Octopus’.
This sounds like a job for William!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is from the NME the week ending 17/01/70 Canned Heat is to film a sequence for Granada's magazine series "Octopus" on January 28th but transmission date has not yet been set.
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Post by markdixon on Aug 22, 2014 10:54:24 GMT
I haven’t been able to find out anything else about the Nick Drake appearance, but I’ve got some more snippets of information about other editions of ‘Octopus’. I found out that Love played at Manchester Polytechnic on Tuesday 24 February 1970. Therefore there’s a strong chance that their ‘Octopus’ performance was broadcast the next day.
According to ‘the Manchester Evening News’ (23 Jan 1970) Canned Heat were booked to play at the Manchester College of Commerce on Jan 29 1970. This fits in with the information William uncovered about their proposed recording session for ‘Octopus’ on Jan 28. I couldn’t find any reference to this gig online. Was it cancelled? If so, maybe the Granada appearance never took place either. ‘The Manchester Evening News’ (22 April 1970) ran a short item about that night’s edition of ‘Octopus’. It was a showcase of North West bands. About 20 bands had been auditioned, but only 3 appeared on the show. They were Greasy Bear, Sleep and Spirogyra. During the programme Jimmy Miller (producer of the Rolling Stones and Traffic) and Tony Secunda (manager of the Move and Procol Harum) were interviewed by presenter Sue Woodford.
There were only 24 editions of the show, not 25 as I stated in an earlier post. The proposed show for 4 March 1970 was replaced by a programme about the closure of Astley Green Colliery in Lancashire.
I found this quote from ‘Octopus’ presenter Jim Walker in a book titled ‘Granada Television: The First Generation’:
‘Nick Elliot made me a presenter of a programme called Octopus, a sort of budget-free Tomorrow’s World made in Studio 4, which was so small that it later became a store room. After three weeks the rumour was that Octopus was on its last leg’.
Therefore ‘Octopus’ was a very small-scale, low-budget show that was sometimes dropped from the schedules without much warning. It doesn’t sound to me like the sort of programme that would have been preserved in full in the archives.
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Post by markdixon on Aug 28, 2014 17:35:01 GMT
This week I viewed copies of the Mancunian underground/alternative press newspaper ‘Grass Eye’ at Manchester Central Library. I knew early issues included a lot of music coverage so I hoped there might be some mention of ‘Octopus’ in general or the Nick Drake appearance in particular. It turned out that the archives don’t hold many editions of ‘Grass Eye’ from the first half of 1970. However I did find this snippet of info from Vol. 2 No. 1 (1 May 1970): ‘Granada TV’s Octopus programme brought Greasy Bear, Spirogyra and Sleep to a mass audience for the first time –which would have been nice except that the sound system in their studios is really bad and all three groups complained of not being able to hear each other’s harmonies. Still, it’s a step towards a regular music programme on TV.’
It seems that ‘Octopus’ wasn’t the only Granada programme from that period that had technical problems when it came to recording live bands. Issue No. 7 of ‘Grass Eye’ (Aug/Sept 1969) contains an interview with Humble Pie. The introduction states that the band had recently recorded a session for an unidentified Granada programme but it was unlikely to be broadcast because of technical difficulties with the sound. Perhaps the problem with the sound system only affected the tiny Studio 4. I’ve seen several larger scale Granada music programmes from that era and the performances don’t seem hampered by technical difficulties at all.
I imagine that Nick Drake’s ‘Octopus’ performance was not hindered by the limitations of the sound system because he was a solo artist. It was probably straightforward to record him completely live or to synch his live vocal with a pre-recorded backing track. On a separate note I found out that the November 2010 issue of ‘Record Collector’ contains a letter from Stephen Diggle in which he wrote: ‘I have checked with purchasers of Nick Drake’s Five Leaves Left (first pressings) who are certain they bought the album after seeing him play live on a TV show aired in the North West. Could it have been a Granada TV show? Do any readers have the same recollection?’
I’m assuming that if several people bought Drake’s debut album on the strength of his ‘Octopus’ appearance then he must have played one of his more immediately accessible songs. I’ve got zero proof, but I’d hazard a guess that he played ‘River Man’.
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Post by John Green on Aug 28, 2014 19:31:06 GMT
Brilliant,Mark.
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 28, 2014 22:13:21 GMT
I haven’t been able to find out anything else about the Nick Drake appearance, but I’ve got some more snippets of information about other editions of ‘Octopus’. I found out that Love played at Manchester Polytechnic on Tuesday 24 February 1970. Therefore there’s a strong chance that their ‘Octopus’ performance was broadcast the next day.
According to ‘the Manchester Evening News’ (23 Jan 1970) Canned Heat were booked to play at the Manchester College of Commerce on Jan 29 1970. This fits in with the information William uncovered about their proposed recording session for ‘Octopus’ on Jan 28. I couldn’t find any reference to this gig online. Was it cancelled? If so, maybe the Granada appearance never took place either. ‘The Manchester Evening News’ (22 April 1970) ran a short item about that night’s edition of ‘Octopus’. It was a showcase of North West bands. About 20 bands had been auditioned, but only 3 appeared on the show. They were Greasy Bear, Sleep and Spirogyra. During the programme Jimmy Miller (producer of the Rolling Stones and Traffic) and Tony Secunda (manager of the Move and Procol Harum) were interviewed by presenter Sue Woodford.
There were only 24 editions of the show, not 25 as I stated in an earlier post. The proposed show for 4 March 1970 was replaced by a programme about the closure of Astley Green Colliery in Lancashire.
I found this quote from ‘Octopus’ presenter Jim Walker in a book titled ‘Granada Television: The First Generation’:
‘Nick Elliot made me a presenter of a programme called Octopus, a sort of budget-free Tomorrow’s World made in Studio 4, which was so small that it later became a store room. After three weeks the rumour was that Octopus was on its last leg’.
Therefore ‘Octopus’ was a very small-scale, low-budget show that was sometimes dropped from the schedules without much warning. It doesn’t sound to me like the sort of programme that would have been preserved in full in the archives.
Hi Mark, According to the Disc and Music Echo dated the 17th January 1970 Canned Heat's 1970 tour did not include Manchester's College of Commerce on the 29/1/70. also there was no mention of any gig for that date being cancelled the tour was... 21/1/70 Newcastle City Hall 22/1/70 Liverpool Philharmonic 23/1/70 Brighton Dome 24/1/70 Bournemouth Winter Gardens 25/1/70 Croydon Fairfield Hall 26/1/70 Birmingham Town Hall then a gap till... 30/1/70 London Royal Albert Hall
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 29, 2014 7:42:48 GMT
Addendum to my last post after cross referencing Disc and Music Echo with the NME, the tour dates were confirmed as correct HOWEVER, the NME said ( it is possible that one or two dates may be added to this itinerary) so was this just a stock statement that the NME would make for lots of different bands? or did someone from Canned Heat's management hint of extra dates? So it is still possible that Canned Heat did a gig in Manchester! Aaaaargh!!!!
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Aug 29, 2014 9:43:50 GMT
I haven’t been able to find out anything else about the Nick Drake appearance, but I’ve got some more snippets of information about other editions of ‘Octopus’. I found out that Love played at Manchester Polytechnic on Tuesday 24 February 1970. Therefore there’s a strong chance that their ‘Octopus’ performance was broadcast the next day.
According to ‘the Manchester Evening News’ (23 Jan 1970) Canned Heat were booked to play at the Manchester College of Commerce on Jan 29 1970. This fits in with the information William uncovered about their proposed recording session for ‘Octopus’ on Jan 28. I couldn’t find any reference to this gig online. Was it cancelled? If so, maybe the Granada appearance never took place either. ‘The Manchester Evening News’ (22 April 1970) ran a short item about that night’s edition of ‘Octopus’. It was a showcase of North West bands. About 20 bands had been auditioned, but only 3 appeared on the show. They were Greasy Bear, Sleep and Spirogyra. During the programme Jimmy Miller (producer of the Rolling Stones and Traffic) and Tony Secunda (manager of the Move and Procol Harum) were interviewed by presenter Sue Woodford.
There were only 24 editions of the show, not 25 as I stated in an earlier post. The proposed show for 4 March 1970 was replaced by a programme about the closure of Astley Green Colliery in Lancashire.
I found this quote from ‘Octopus’ presenter Jim Walker in a book titled ‘Granada Television: The First Generation’:
‘Nick Elliot made me a presenter of a programme called Octopus, a sort of budget-free Tomorrow’s World made in Studio 4, which was so small that it later became a store room. After three weeks the rumour was that Octopus was on its last leg’.
Therefore ‘Octopus’ was a very small-scale, low-budget show that was sometimes dropped from the schedules without much warning. It doesn’t sound to me like the sort of programme that would have been preserved in full in the archives.
Hi Mark, According to the Disc and Music Echo dated the 17th January 1970 Canned Heat's 1970 tour did not include Manchester's College of Commerce on the 29/1/70. also there was no mention of any gig for that date being cancelled the tour was... 21/1/70 Newcastle City Hall 22/1/70 Liverpool Philharmonic 23/1/70 Brighton Dome 24/1/70 Bournemouth Winter Gardens 25/1/70 Croydon Fairfield Hall 26/1/70 Birmingham Town Hall then a gap till... 30/1/70 London Royal Albert Hall On 29/01/1970 Canned Heat appeared on TOTP; it was filmed the day before. The appearance was only to present an award to the best dance and for the person wearing the 'grooviest gear'. Their appearance was preceded with a TOTP promo film made by Tom Taylor. The show still exists in the BBC Archives, the Canned Heat-related sections are only in monochrome.
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Post by markdixon on Aug 29, 2014 10:53:02 GMT
Hi William, I suppose we might never know whether or not Canned Heat played in Manchester on the 29th January 1970. They were a very successful band at the time so it does seem odd that they would have agreed to do a gig at such a small venue. Perhaps they found it refreshing to play in front of a small audience every so often. If the gig was arranged at short notice then maybe it was never included in music press listings. That might explain why the gig isn’t included on websites that feature Canned Heat concert lists. It also seems odd how a low-budget show like ‘Octopus’ was able to secure such an excellent range of guests. I suspect that the presenter Andrew Fisher had something to do with the bookings. He led a very varied and interesting life so he probably had a wide range of contacts. Fisher died in Australia in 2008. His obituary on the ‘Sydney Morning Herald’ website is worth reading. It doesn’t mention ‘Octopus’ by name, but states that he was ‘a frontman for a weekly current affairs show on Granada TV in Manchester’.
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 29, 2014 12:12:38 GMT
Hi William, I suppose we might never know whether or not Canned Heat played in Manchester on the 29th January 1970. They were a very successful band at the time so it does seem odd that they would have agreed to do a gig at such a small venue. Perhaps they found it refreshing to play in front of a small audience every so often. If the gig was arranged at short notice then maybe it was never included in music press listings. That might explain why the gig isn’t included on websites that feature Canned Heat concert lists. It also seems odd how a low-budget show like ‘Octopus’ was able to secure such an excellent range of guests. I suspect that the presenter Andrew Fisher had something to do with the bookings. He led a very varied and interesting life so he probably had a wide range of contacts. Fisher died in Australia in 2008. His obituary on the ‘Sydney Morning Herald’ website is worth reading. It doesn’t mention ‘Octopus’ by name, but states that he was ‘a frontman for a weekly current affairs show on Granada TV in Manchester’.
Hi Mark, I posted a few 'NME Readers Letters' threads from 1968-1970 a few months ago here's one I remember about Canned Heat on TOTP from the 29/1/70I thought this might give us an insight into how NME readers thought about Top of the Pops in 1970 below are some readers thoughts as they were published Verbatim in the famous FROM YOU TO US column: 7TH FEBRUARY 1970 I would like to know the BBC's logic in showing a film of the Canned Heat on yesterday's (the 29th) Top of the Pops, when the group were actually present in the studio. This seemed to be a tremendous waste of talent particularly as the Heat have not been seen live on British TV for over a year.PETER UNWIN, Nuneaton, Warks.
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Post by williammcgregor on Aug 29, 2014 12:56:14 GMT
Hi William, I suppose we might never know whether or not Canned Heat played in Manchester on the 29th January 1970. They were a very successful band at the time so it does seem odd that they would have agreed to do a gig at such a small venue. Perhaps they found it refreshing to play in front of a small audience every so often.
In the Disc and Music echo dated 24th January 1970 Bob Hite said "They are glad they are not playing at posh night club,the Revolution" because they want to appear where people can see them without paying high prices.
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Post by markdixon on Aug 29, 2014 14:21:34 GMT
Perhaps Canned Heat were unable to perform a song during their 'Top of the Pops' appearance recorded on 28th January 1970, because their instruments were already in Manchester. The band members could easily have travelled by plane from London to Manchester after giving out the awards and then they could have recorded a musical performance for 'Octopus' at the Granada Studios.
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