|
|
Post by John Andersen on Nov 10, 2013 3:44:59 GMT
[Quoted post deleted at request of author - RM]
I'd let Phil Morris handle it. He is currently checking places that haven't been searched before. He also has the credentials to get into archives and other locations where others can't.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brad Phipps on Nov 10, 2013 7:26:53 GMT
[Quoted post deleted at request of author - RM]
Graham Howard and Jon Preddle to drop just two names have already done extensive searching in both film archives and written archive locations. Graham found the original film cans for Marco Polo 7 and The Moonbase 3 in Wellington in 1990 but the contents didn't match the labels.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brad Phipps on Nov 10, 2013 7:41:40 GMT
All of the films for Dr Who were stored at Harriett St film store in Wellington. It was here that the films were retained until mid-late 1974 when TVNZ closed the archive down when they shifted to Avalon studios. The films that didn't get moved were junked. It was from this that The Crusade 1 was salvaged during a junking trip to the landfill and was eventually returned to the BBC 25 years later.
The fates that we know:
Marco Polo (1 2) - Sent to Iran in 1967
Marco Polo (3 4 5 6 7) - Mentioned at Harriet St in 1970, likely junked, film can of ep7 found in 1990
The Reign of Terror - Junked by the NZBC in 1971
The Crusade - Mentioned at Harriet St in 1970, likely junked, ep1 found in 1999
Galaxy 4 - Sent to Singapore in 1972
Mission to the Unknown - NEVER PURCHASED
The Myth Makers - - Sent to Singapore in 1972
The Daleks Master Plan - NEVER PURCHASED
The Massacre - Sent to Singapore in 1972
The Celestial Toymaker - Sent to Singapore in 1972
The Savages - Sent to Singapore in 1972
The Smugglers - Sent to Singapore in 1972
The Tenth Planet - Sent to Singapore in 1972
The Power of the Daleks - Sent to Singapore in 1972
The Highlanders - Junked by the NZBC (date unknown) (see note below)
The Underwater Menace - Mentioned at Harriet St in 1970, likely junked
The Moonbase - Mentioned at Harriet St in 1970, likely junked, film can of ep3 found in 1990
The Macra Terror - Junked by the NZBC in 1974 (see note below)
The Faceless Ones - NEVER SCREENED, returned to the BBC in 1975
The Evil of the Daleks - Junked by the NZBC prior to 1974
The Abominable Snowmen - Mentioned in records as 'Exp 1973', which could mean rights expired, films exported, etc. No other documentation found
The Ice Warriors - NEVER SCREENED, either sent back to BBC London (like Faceless Ones) or stored at Harriett St
The Web of Fear - No documentation found
Fury from the Deep - NEVER SCREEN, either sent back to BBC London (like Faceless Ones) or stored at Harriett St
The Wheel in Space - No documentation found
The Invasion - NEVER PURCHASED
The Space Pirates - NEVER PURCHASED
There have been word-of-mouth stories of sightings of installments of The Highlanders and The Macra Terror appearing AFTER their junking dates, but nothing else has heard from them since the 1970s.
|
|
|
|
Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 10, 2013 10:39:38 GMT
I agree Phil Morris is the best person to look into this...
while of course it's very likely the NZ film cans were 'junked' as stated and are thus long lost, there is always a chance something has survived...
remember 'likely junked' DOESN'T 100% confirm 'junked' does it...?
while 'no documentation' is open ended....
we must never fall into the trap of 'blanket assumption' - Phil Morris has proved this in quite spectacular style...!
re the point about the 'Marco Polo' film cans contents NOT matching the contents in the NZ archive....
I have been 'record hunting' in shops in the past and more than once I have discovered the WRONG record inside a sleeve....then duly found the right record in the 'other' sleeve (!)
- not always of course but a few times it's been the case...
Is it feasible that somewhere in the present NZ archive 'Marco Polo' (or whatever other TV shows, not just 'Dr.Who') might exist having long ago been similarly 'mis-filed' ? (EMI records have in recent years discovered long lost master tapes of famous artists mis-filed...'missing' stereo versions of tracks have thus come to light !)
in my old job we once had a guy who was working in the storeroom who (we found out) had a handicap which affected his filing....loads of items were later found to have been unintentionally 'mis-filed' by the poor chap (it happens)
so while when they searched they only found film cans, maybe a more thorough search could be instigated - IF of course permission could be obtained - just in case of 'mis-filing' ?(as EMI once did looking to properly sort out their archive, notably re Beatles masters)
I realise this might not be practical, it would be time consuming & quite possibly just NOT feasible, but you never know what might also be in a 'wrong can' do you ??
|
|
|
|
Post by Jon Preddle on Nov 10, 2013 18:13:59 GMT
The Abominable Snowmen - Mentioned in records as 'Exp 1973', which could mean rights expired, films exported, etc. Several of the Troughtons have Exp followed by a date. It's clear from other such dates throughout the film traffic log books that it's the rights expiry date. Neil's story about seeing Macra is from 1971/72 - which is before the 1974 junking date. |
|
|
|
Post by David Fade on Nov 10, 2013 20:42:39 GMT
Well they definitely showed the William Hartnell 'Dalek Invasion of Earth' story during the early 1990s as I have it recorded on a VHS tape somewhere. It was a compilation broadcast by the way.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Green on Nov 10, 2013 20:52:20 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Boudreau on Nov 11, 2013 0:28:29 GMT
Neat story! Thanks for sharing. |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Phipps on Nov 11, 2013 2:57:03 GMT
The Abominable Snowmen - Mentioned in records as 'Exp 1973', which could mean rights expired, films exported, etc. Several of the Troughtons have Exp followed by a date. It's clear from other such dates throughout the film traffic log books that it's the rights expiry date. Which other Troughtons say this? Neil's story about seeing Macra is from 1971/72 - which is before the 1974 junking date. [/quote] Did he change his story? I've been going back through the forums and from what I was reading he was adamant it was the summer at the end of 1974. Did I miss the final chapter...? |
|
|
|
Post by John F Brayshaw on Nov 11, 2013 3:56:26 GMT
Unless a private collector has something - NZ is finished with the trash heap find.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 11, 2013 4:00:51 GMT
If so Brad, I can't find it either.  There's this, which many here have already seen, and whilst old I see nothing here by Neil or others that casts doubt on it: doctorwho.org.nz/archive/tsv58/lifeandtimes.htmlAnd then there's a post from an old thread I'll bump back into circulation for the curious.  Additional: Actually, the linked bit mentions Neil guessing one period and then the thread I bumped with his comment quoted suggests it might have been a bit later. The TSV recollection seems to support an earlier and pre-junking period, the comment here puts it over the expected junking date. Either way, if it was at school, it suggests the prints went walkies, before the junking occurred. It seems improbable that whomever facilitated that would dutifully return them so they could be destroyed!  Maybe Neil can clarify for those of us who tuned in late, if he's not bored witless talking about giant crab monsters!  Either way, it's very interesting stuff!!  |
|
|
|
Post by JOHN SMITH on Nov 11, 2013 8:19:29 GMT
If so Brad, I can't find it either. There's this, which many here have already seen, and whilst old I see nothing here by Neil or others that casts doubt on it: doctorwho.org.nz/archive/tsv58/lifeandtimes.htmlAnd then there's a post from an old thread I'll bump back into circulation for the curious. Additional: Actually, the linked bit mentions Neil guessing one period and then the thread I bumped with his comment quoted suggests it might have been a bit later. The TSV recollection seems to support an earlier and pre-junking period, the comment here puts it over the expected junking date. Either way, if it was at school, it suggests the prints went walkies, before the junking occurred. It seems improbable that whomever facilitated that would dutifully return them so they could be destroyed! Maybe Neil can clarify for those of us who tuned in late, if he's not bored witless talking about giant crab monsters! Either way, it's very interesting stuff!! As I recall, re The Lion. Many collectors said Grenville shouldn't give it back. With such an attitude amongst some collectors in the field, there DOES exist the distinct possibility that some episodes do indeed knowingly exist in private hands in NZ and AU who have no wish to hand them over anytime soon. |
|
|
|
Post by Jon Preddle on Nov 11, 2013 8:26:01 GMT
Several of the Troughtons have Exp followed by a date. It's clear from other such dates throughout the film traffic log books that it's the rights expiry date. Which other Troughtons say this? Most of the season five ones do -- I've put the expiry date on the relevant story pages in BroaDWcast. |
|
|
|
Post by adamjordan on Nov 11, 2013 8:36:54 GMT
................Graham found the original film cans for Marco Polo 7 and The Moonbase 3 in Wellington in 1990 but the contents didn't match the labels. Do we know what the contents were? And were the original film cans for those programmes then checked for their contents? I guess there will always be the possibility that Dr Who eps may be languishing in archives within mis-filed film canisters. But if you were throwing film canisters out would you even check that the contents matched the labels? |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Phipps on Nov 11, 2013 8:48:40 GMT
Which other Troughtons say this? Most of the season five ones do -- I've put the expiry date on the relevant story pages in BroaDWcast. Thanks, will take a look when I get a sec. |
|
