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Post by Paul Rumbol on Oct 15, 2013 18:15:47 GMT
cjones that's a very good idea in your original post from last year. Dan S you may well be right that no episodes exist in the hands of private hoarders. But isnt it worth dangling that carrot to see if anything does appear? This plan has more teeth than idly looking around car boot sales and jumble sales.
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Post by Alex Taylor on Oct 15, 2013 18:21:20 GMT
There has never been the slightest bit of evidence for 'hoarding' so far as I am aware. It's a long-standing fan myth, much like the one about Blue Peter having lost TP:4 :-)
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Post by Alex Dering on Oct 15, 2013 18:43:19 GMT
The problem with offering money is, as has been pointed out, that it merely drives the price up. And there's no standard for price basing. "A Space Pirates episode got how much? But that serial was rubbish. I deserve much more for THIS!!!"
Let's apply the Monty Python reasoning: either unrestricted garnishing or a single standard Olympic mayonnaise. I would suggest that sweetening the pot could work, but it could never be monetary. Perhaps offer a small list of possibilities:
1. Lunch with Tom Baker (or Peter Davison, etc.) 2. Lunch with the Queen (she's a fan, isn't she?) 3. A non-speaking walkon role in a current BBC series of the tapeholder's choice. You'll be in the scene, and you'll get to point it out to everyone, and there'll be no doubt it's really you. 4. A trade system. Surely there are items in the BBC archives that are not commercially available but that people would want copies of. Make in a 5-to-1 ratio or something. 5. Other. Literally, put it out there that no unreasonable request will be turned down for consideration.
But no money!
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Post by briancook on Oct 15, 2013 19:24:42 GMT
The problem with offering money is, as has been pointed out, that it merely drives the price up. And there's no standard for price basing. "A Space Pirates episode got how much? But that serial was rubbish. I deserve much more for THIS!!!" Let's apply the Monty Python reasoning: either unrestricted garnishing or a single standard Olympic mayonnaise. I would suggest that sweetening the pot could work, but it could never be monetary. Perhaps offer a small list of possibilities: 1. Lunch with Tom Baker (or Peter Davison, etc.) 2. Lunch with the Queen (she's a fan, isn't she?) 3. A non-speaking walkon role in a current BBC series of the tapeholder's choice. You'll be in the scene, and you'll get to point it out to everyone, and there'll be no doubt it's really you. 4. A trade system. Surely there are items in the BBC archives that are not commercially available but that people would want copies of. Make in a 5-to-1 ratio or something. 5. Other. Literally, put it out there that no unreasonable request will be turned down for consideration. But no money! ah the walk on part raises its head again, been suggested and turned down flat as regards returning material [ it was a 'rights issue' and the unions were not happy either AFAICR - was in the 1980's] unfortunately, quite rightly, in my view, the BBC do not see their material as 'bargaining chips' so theres no way such ideas will see the light of day. with regard to my earlier post, if team 'C' had had a better youth policy set up in the 1970's this would not have required them to buy a player!!!
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Post by cjones on Oct 15, 2013 19:50:37 GMT
cjones that's a very good idea in your original post from last year. Well, perhaps. But it is worth pointing out that it was conceived in a completely different fandom to that which we have today. Remember, this time last year only four episodes had been found in the previous 20 years, and it seemed an unpleasant but increasingly obvious conclusion that all that there was left to find were orphan episodes - hence my idea, which I primarily dreamed up with the location of episodes in a piecemeal fashion in mind. The events of the previous fortnight have shown this to be untrue – and as was pointed out during the original debate, the 'missing episodes society' has no solution to the thorny issue of what happens if a given source uncovers multiple episodes. Imagine that EotW and WoF had been located not in Nigeria, but in a car boot sale somewhere in Britain. What would have happened then? As I said at the time, creating a society with a fund to purchase missing episodes provides people with an incentive to look, but not much else, and while the idea was given a good shake on the forum, a consensus of opinion emerged that the drawbacks outweighed that single advantage, which I respect. As regards all this talk of secret masters of fandom hoarding copies of this or that serial, it is completely unsubstantiated - probably a myth concocted by fans who were so eager to believe that their favourite serials had not been destroyed that it was easier for them to think that some cadre of fans were holding them hostage. No one has ever put forward a single shred of evidence to support it, so I think the idea of justifying the existence of a society, or basing any argument on that basis in fact, can be safely dismissed.
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Post by Charles Daniels on Oct 15, 2013 20:49:52 GMT
I hate the money offering idea because it will end up with inflated demands and people having unrealistic expectations of the worth of what they hold
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Post by Sue Butcher on Oct 15, 2013 23:39:14 GMT
I don't think fans offering a cash reward can help with this. Missing Who episodes are commercially valuable. I think it would be fair for the BBC to offer a percentage of the sales.
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Post by Alex Dering on Oct 16, 2013 15:08:50 GMT
Shame on me for not thinking of this sooner: Instead of cash, offer a charitable donation. Each episode returned will trigger an X-thousand-pound donation to one of a short list of charities in the name of the returnee.
As for the unions. A walk-on role with no words is not (at least in America) a union-isolated thing. Non-union backgrounders are common in television productions. The unions could easily be made to swallow it by simply saying that, yes, in order to give this one non-union person his five seconds of fame, the production will hire two extra union players. The idea might not work, but it wouldn't fail because of union obstructionism. (Unless I'm completely misinformed about how the British actors' unions work. And I'd love to know if I got it wrong.)
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Post by Alan Hayes on Oct 16, 2013 18:16:51 GMT
I don't think fans offering a cash reward can help with this. Missing Who episodes are commercially valuable. I think it would be fair for the BBC to offer a percentage of the sales. If Phil Morris/TIEA isn't getting a cut of the iTunes and DVD releases, it'll be a criminal injustice. Neither would be possible without him.
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Post by dennywilson on Oct 18, 2013 10:34:51 GMT
I don't think fans offering a cash reward can help with this. Missing Who episodes are commercially valuable. I think it would be fair for the BBC to offer a percentage of the sales. If Phil Morris/TIEA isn't getting a cut of the iTunes and DVD releases, it'll be a criminal injustice. Neither would be possible without him. As a professional archivist, I would would be surprised if the BBC didn't give him compensation for his work.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Oct 18, 2013 10:48:04 GMT
If Phil Morris/TIEA isn't getting a cut of the iTunes and DVD releases, it'll be a criminal injustice. Neither would be possible without him. As a professional archivist, I would would be surprised if the BBC didn't give him compensation for his work. Phil runs a business, not a charity - no matter his devotion to the hobby we love or inherent human decency. But as to specifics, who knows? Nowt to do with me, lest he says otherwise! I fear this is quickly straying close to Speculation Avenue, the sort of thing that our benevolent mods who weed these threads so wisely, are just sick to the back teeth of...
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Post by Matthew Kurth on Oct 24, 2013 1:43:40 GMT
Like Red Kangs and Blue Kangs. Red Kangs are best!
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Post by Nick Cooper on Oct 24, 2013 15:32:55 GMT
whilst the mertis are good the fact remains that its dangerous to approach anyone offering money in such a way. I deal and collect a certain book, I have experience of how a market can be affected by events and would advise avoiding mention of money. as has been stated you run the risk of pushing things underground even more. I have to echo that. I collect productions stills relating to one particular film, which normally sell for eBay for the equivalent of around £10-15. Every now and again, one persistently dealer who has been trying to offload the same three not particularly rare photographs for several years now chances their arm again, but puts a starting bid equivalent to around £35. They never sell, but do have the effect that a lot of "new" sellers with stills for the same film will suddenly start listing them at similar prices, and then no doubt get very surprised that nobody buys them.
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