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Post by Brian Denton on Jan 17, 2014 20:47:37 GMT
Well, it made for an interesting interlude, and I shall now retreat from my [as it transpired false] fifteen minutes of fame! If nothing else, it inspired me to go and see if Mike Slemen's amazing try in one of the provincial games on the 1980 Lions Tour was on Youtube.
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Post by richardwoods on Jan 17, 2014 21:47:28 GMT
Don't sweat it Brian, as you said an interesting interlude. And it looks like you got your wish, Rob's initial post appears to have been deleted, so your name is up in lights. Don't suppose you know if any footage of England's historic 72 tour exists do you?
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 17, 2014 23:14:50 GMT
As the original email from my South African friend Hendry who now lives in the UK seems to have vanished, I have copied the relevant bit again below for info for those who haven't seen it. "Yes, I do remember watching British TV at the local bughouses, things like " Candid Camera ", " The Sweeney ", " The Persauders ", " The Saint " etc. We never had cinema chains then, but independent cinemas , like " His Majesty's ", " The Empire ", " The Cinerama ", " The Coloseum ", " The 20th Century ", " The Rialto ", " The Roxy " & many, many more including all the drive-in cinemas . We only got movie chains in the '80's like " SterCity " etc". I have asked Hendry if he knows anyone in SA who would be prepared to do some leg work but sadly it appears not. I also contacted John Ferrera at South Africa's Historic Cinemas Website again to try a develop some leads but he said that there were no film societies in SA and felt that films associated with the former colonial power would be viewed as not worthy of nostalgia and binned long ago. I got the feeling that he felt that I was perhaps being insensitive and ended the conversation. I would suggest however that recent experience is that things can survive in the most unexpected locations so here's hoping. Doesn't the originally English part look kindly to the UK then? Perhaps nostalgia is in SA a complicated thing, and a luxury they can't afford?? Those films must have had semi-legal distributors, though. |
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Post by richardwoods on Jan 18, 2014 7:05:19 GMT
As the original email from my South African friend Hendry who now lives in the UK seems to have vanished, I have copied the relevant bit again below for info for those who haven't seen it. "Yes, I do remember watching British TV at the local bughouses, things like " Candid Camera ", " The Sweeney ", " The Persauders ", " The Saint " etc. We never had cinema chains then, but independent cinemas , like " His Majesty's ", " The Empire ", " The Cinerama ", " The Coloseum ", " The 20th Century ", " The Rialto ", " The Roxy " & many, many more including all the drive-in cinemas . We only got movie chains in the '80's like " SterCity " etc". I have asked Hendry if he knows anyone in SA who would be prepared to do some leg work but sadly it appears not. I also contacted John Ferrera at South Africa's Historic Cinemas Website again to try a develop some leads but he said that there were no film societies in SA and felt that films associated with the former colonial power would be viewed as not worthy of nostalgia and binned long ago. I got the feeling that he felt that I was perhaps being insensitive and ended the conversation. I would suggest however that recent experience is that things can survive in the most unexpected locations so here's hoping. Doesn't the originally English part look kindly to the UK then? Perhaps nostalgia is in SA a complicated thing, and a luxury they can't afford?? Those films must have had semi-legal distributors, though. My mothers Uncle settled in SA in the early part of last century. From what I have been told you have hit the nail on the head with complicated with regard to how peoples origins are viewed. Sadly I am not in touch with any second / third cousins over there but might have a try to track them down at some point. Sadly both my parents and all that generation have all gone now but you never know. |
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Post by richardwoods on Jan 18, 2014 16:46:42 GMT
Good to see that Page 1 has now been restored. Thanks Rob, (assuming it was you of course).
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Feb 3, 2014 21:26:04 GMT
Someone else whom I asked the question told me "I have come across "pirated" 16mm films that had cartoons on them, these cartoons should not have existed especially since the contents from the rest of the box predates 1965, tv did not officially launch until 1975 and most of these programs were dubbed French tv series however some people recall watching British tv shows that had never aired in South Africa, most specifically the avengers, that had become a large hit on radio. There are some reports that suggest that there were film libraries that had copies, I can confirm at least one such library, I have come across their sticker on at least two canisters (unfortunately nothing of note)."
But the problem is still of course where films like that are now, and if they weren't discarded long ago.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Nov 12, 2018 9:35:27 GMT
[4 years later...]
I have heard this again now, how films (telerecordings I mean) would come in via Rhodesia. There wouldn't be a paper trail, because it was all clandestine.
The person who told me suspects that the collectors who're still out there are silent about it, because there was a lawsuit of someone who owned a South African film.
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Post by richardwoods on Nov 14, 2018 18:55:26 GMT
That would explain why one person I approached was very guarded & seemed keen that I dropped the subject.
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Post by Martin Dunne on Nov 15, 2018 7:26:24 GMT
You've done sterling work there Richard; exactly what I would have done. If there's any way to contact cinema people, that'd be the most fruitful avenue.
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Post by richardwoods on Nov 17, 2018 9:29:33 GMT
You've done sterling work there Richard; exactly what I would have done. If there's any way to contact cinema people, that'd be the most fruitful avenue. Thanks, I will have to try and somehow find some new avenues & contacts, just to recap, my initial historic cinema contact was initially supportive, but said that no British TV would have been shown in cinemas just on home rental which flatly contradicts the memories my friend has of viewing British TV in his local cinema in SA. The cinema guy was also negative at the chance of any material surviving outside of any saved by film collectors. I approached him again and asked if he could put me in contact with any collectors, and at that point he said that he felt that it was unlikely that any film collectors existed as the material would be something from the colonial past viewed as undesirable in South Africa today. It's a difficult situation, culturally sensitive and also (POSSIBLY) extremely discrete film collectors who's hobby could be seen as non-Pc in today's South Africa. It may ultimately need to be a boots on the ground job for PM or someone similarly driven with the right contacts. |
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Post by Chris Keating on Mar 4, 2019 2:25:42 GMT
As a side-matter, I remember reading a article in an Australian TV guide circa 1971 or so, regarding a TV viewer in Rhodesia who didn't like the Australian TV dramas being shown there.
It appeared to be episodes of "Homicide" and "Hunter" - must try and track it down when I get a chance.
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 16, 2021 22:27:10 GMT
Post copied from Out of the Unknown thread 16/10/21
I really think you are writing this off too easily John, we have three independent sources saying that presumably illegally sourced UK TV programs were available as film rentals for home use from a large number of film rental shops in SA, I’m assuming from the early 60’s till some point in the 70’s when widespread arrival of TV & later video put them out of business.
Even assuming that BBC programs weren’t available, which I personally believe is not fully the case at least, (my view, that’s all), what about missing ITV stuff from the 60’s for example? Due to the large numbers of copies made, isn’t this a potentially good avenue for investigation if it hasn’t been looked into thoroughly including on the ground before?
Go back 10 years on the forum and there was a definite feeling often expressed by some individuals that TV stations had been “checked” for their holdings & didn’t have missing material. Presumably administratively, by letter, telex, fax or phone? Along came Philip Morris & everything changed along with some attitudes on here, well at least I thought so.
Yes, we are all fallible, to err is human, and I have already apologised for mixing up details between two emails I published on the same subject in a thread some years ago, I’m always happy to put my hand up if I’ve quoted something incorrectly or made a mistake as I hope I’ve shown here. It’s worth pointing out however that the factual content of the emails remains the same and it doesn’t make this any less worthy of investigation IMHO.
Let’s hope Philip Morris is reading this thread & if he hasn’t considered SA as having potential, he at least looks into it due to the sheer numbers of film copies made to supply the film rental businesses.
I do like to believe people’s memories as a starting point on this sort of investigation, like Neil & The Macra showing at the sports day in NZ. Memories can be flawed as we all know but in my experience there is usually a core of truth in there. To just dismiss things like this completely is just rude in my book & more worryingly might put off folks coming forward with useful leads in future.
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Post by John Wall on Oct 16, 2021 23:18:54 GMT
Post copied from Out of the Unknown thread 16/10/21 I really think you are writing this off too easily John, we have three independent sources saying that presumably illegally sourced UK TV programs were available as film rentals for home use from a large number of film rental shops in SA, I’m assuming from the early 60’s till some point in the 70’s when widespread arrival of TV & later video put them out of business. Even assuming that BBC programs weren’t available, which I personally believe is not fully the case at least, (my view, that’s all), what about missing ITV stuff from the 60’s for example? Due to the large numbers of copies made, isn’t this a potentially good avenue for investigation if it hasn’t been looked into thoroughly including on the ground before? Go back 10 years on the forum and there was a definite feeling often expressed by some individuals that TV stations had been “checked” for their holdings & didn’t have missing material. Presumably administratively, by letter, telex, fax or phone? Along came Philip Morris & everything changed along with some attitudes on here, well at least I thought so. Yes, we are all fallible, to err is human, and I have already apologised for mixing up details between two emails I published on the same subject in a thread some years ago, I’m always happy to put my hand up if I’ve quoted something incorrectly or made a mistake as I hope I’ve shown here. It’s worth pointing out however that the factual content of the emails remains the same and it doesn’t make this any less worthy of investigation IMHO. Let’s hope Philip Morris is reading this thread & if he hasn’t considered SA as having potential, he at least looks into it due to the sheer numbers of film copies made to supply the film rental businesses. I do like to believe people’s memories as a starting point on this sort of investigation, like Neil & The Macra showing at the sports day in NZ. Memories can be flawed as we all know but in my experience there is usually a core of truth in there. To just dismiss things like this completely is just rude in my book & more worryingly might put off folks coming forward with useful leads in future. And you haven’t read what I wrote. There’s nothing difficult in contemplating widely sold British film TV series such as the Saint or Persuaders being rented out on 16mm before TV started - the timescales and ability to get prints all work. However, it’s also clear that in the memories of some, British videotape TV series shown after TV started have been transposed to an earlier era - the inconsistency in the accounts such as getting names wrong and implausible dates substantiate that. |
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Post by Neil Lambess on Oct 17, 2021 1:54:37 GMT
As an aside 16mm film prints (possibly 35 mm ) of the colour Avengers were shown in NZ cinemas in the 1960s at the same time the black and white ones were been shown on TV .I have posters for them and they are widely advertised in newspapers so it has precedent elsewhere in the world .as John Wall points on material shot on film possibly has a greater chance of been used this way ...also possible unique to NZ is the attraction was that they were in colour rather than the black and white TV screenings . (Although most NZ cinemas were 35mm they also had 16mm projectors for cine adverts and old projectionist's I have talked to think the avengers were sourced as 16mm....defiantly distributed through the Kerridge Odeon chain
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Post by Chris Keating on Oct 17, 2021 3:21:42 GMT
....defiantly distributed through the Kerridge Odeon chain In defiance of who? Was someone trying to stop them? |
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