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Post by jackw28 on Nov 14, 2012 20:42:20 GMT
IMO, we could possibly see between Fury from the deep - The space pirates. I'm just saying! maybe we found the silver lining in all these rumours. EDIT: or if we're lucky, from The abdominable snowmen-The space pirates.
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Post by George D on Nov 14, 2012 22:34:48 GMT
Its definitely a lead worth following but keep in mind that most home recordings you will find from the 1970s will be late 70s rather than early 70s. Asking the format might help narrow down the time period. Usually, its the tech geeks that would have experimented with early reel to reel video, not mothers.. but anything is possible.
My thoughts is that it would probably be Tom Bakers or perhaps Pertwees, but anything is worth a shot at this point.
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Post by John Andersen on Nov 14, 2012 23:12:45 GMT
I would guess that formats like VHS would have caught on in the late 70's - early 80's. Betamax, earlier than that. Of course it's always likely that there would have been Shibaden or other reel to reel video recorders available in the early 70's, but not likely affordable by the average person. Doesn't mean it's impossible tho: The guy in the UK who had the poor quality recording of Space Pirates 2 and the Apollo moon landing, for example. For definite, the last chance for missing Troughton would have been 1971. Pertwees were shown later, but these were likely the B&W prints the BBC struck for overseas sales. The last countries to show lost Troughton episodes were Zambia and Nigeria in the early to mid 70s. It might be worth a try to post free online ads about video recordings and see if anybody answers the advertisement. I don't see how it can hurt to try.
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Post by George D on Nov 15, 2012 1:07:16 GMT
sigh.. if only Ian was at Enterprises two years earlier
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Post by Daniel Hornby on Nov 15, 2012 17:01:30 GMT
sigh.. if only Ian was at Enterprises two years earlier I think that this has been covered before. If he was there 2 years beforehand, it is unlikely that anything would have changed. The story as far as I am aware is that Ian wanted to play Galaxy 4 at a convention and was told it was too late, it was already junked, upon which point he accosts Sue Malden (who had a big part to play in preserving what was left) and frightens her half to death. In a parallel universe, Ian would have been given the copy of a non-wiped G4 and would have been unaware that the junking was taking place. That would have meant that we probably would have had less right now, rather than more, certainly if you believe the infamous tale of 'The Daleks' being hours away from destruction! As time travel (especially backwards) is impossible right now, if not always, then we should be thankful for what remains. Although: "...recent discoveries made at the Cern Large Hadron Collider; the world's largest atom smasher, have encouraged physicists to theorize that the LHC might one day be used to send a hypothetical particle called the ‘Higgs singlet' to another time. Vanderbilt University researchers Tom Weiler and Chui Man Ho posted their ground-breaking theory on the research website, www.arXiv.org. They added that although this method cannot transport a human through time, it could be used to send messages and other information to the past or future." Quote from: www.positivefuturist.com/archive/383.htmlWe can thus conclude by reading this and the rest of the article that in 2030 or so, Paul V can send a message back to the BBC in around 1965 (or as far back as the late 50s), urging them not to wipe anything as it will be released in super-duper DVD format for future generations to watch at their leisure. The result would either be: 1. A time paradox, resulting in temporal instability that only the Third Doctor can fix by reversing the polarity of the neutron flow, or: 2. Paul V is consigned to a padded cell for the rest of time, after which point we don't get our stream of Revistations (would make Tony's day no end!), or: 3. The missing episodes mysteriously appear in the BBC archives, and we can again watch the halcyon days of Bill and Pat in all their glory, or: 4. We can put it all in context, and thank our lucky stars for our relatively lucky lives and that at least DW isn't like Z Cars or United! for example.
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Post by John Andersen on Nov 15, 2012 18:01:01 GMT
sigh.. if only Ian was at Enterprises two years earlier I think that this has been covered before. If he was there 2 years beforehand, it is unlikely that anything would have changed. The story as far as I am aware is that Ian wanted to play Galaxy 4 at a convention and was told it was too late, it was already junked, upon which point he accosts Sue Malden (who had a big part to play in preserving what was left) and frightens her half to death. Are you absolutely sure that was Sue Malden? If he had done that to her, I don't see why she would have given BBC Enterprises the order to stop junking the Doctor Who episodes. From what I had heard, Ian Levine had been looking to buy classic Doctor Who episodes for several years, but he was continually denied permission because of a policy saying that ordinary people couldn't purchase prints for their own personal use. When that red tape was finally gone, Ian was in the process of getting official clearances to buy the old Doctor Who episodes. He went to the Film and Videotape library with a man named John Bridger to make a purchase. When they got there, there wasn't much of anything left, but Ian supposedly bought what was there anyway. If I recall correctly, the only complete story that was there was An UnEarthly Child. Ian and Bridger then went to BBC Enterprises where they found that seasons 3-6 were devastated beyond belief. Ian also discovered even more episodes ready to be destroyed when they arrived. At this point, he had probably come to the conclusion that if the BBC didn't have the Doctor Who episodes, then chances were that a majority of them were gone for good. That would be a traumatic shock for any Doctor Who fan. Ian encountered a woman named Pamela Nash who said something like "Nobody wants them - They are only black and white film prints." I can see why he would be upset. That would piss off a lot of people to go all that way to fight through the red tape over the years and get clearances to buy Doctor Who stories only to find that they are gone now. After that encounter, Levine and Bridger contacted Sue Malden at the Film and Videotape archive to get an official order to stop junking the prints. Even after that order was given to Pamela Nash, some concerns have been raised in Richard Molesworth's book about missing episodes possibly still being junked after that order. There are sources in that book citing events where overseas returns from other countries were still being junked before checking with the film and videotape library to see if they existed. It has been mentioned that paperwork is currently being looked into to see what was exactly in those returns that were destroyed after the order had been given. They could have been Pertwee episodes that already existed, but it would be a shame if there were missing Hartnell or Troughton stories that were returned and destroyed again.
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Post by Daniel Hornby on Nov 15, 2012 18:06:31 GMT
You're right, it was Pamela Nash (my first thought in my head if I'm honest). Somewhere along the line I was informed that it couldn't have been Pamela Nash. Proves that sometimes going with gut instinct produces the right information!
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Post by Stephen Neve on Nov 15, 2012 18:12:49 GMT
Its definitely a lead worth following but keep in mind that most home recordings you will find from the 1970s will be late 70s rather than early 70s. Asking the format might help narrow down the time period. Usually, its the tech geeks that would have experimented with early reel to reel video, not mothers.. but anything is possible. My thoughts is that it would probably be Tom Bakers or perhaps Pertwees, but anything is worth a shot at this point. I cannot see why the chap with the dalek would want to negotiate with someone over some pertwee or tom baker episodes.
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Post by Daniel Hornby on Nov 15, 2012 18:14:13 GMT
I was aware that Sue Malden would have stopped the junking anyway. She was looking at archiving anyway I believe and was dismayed to discover all of the junking of DW (and other shows) that had occured. Whether this discovery was down to Ian Levine or not, I'm not sure, although I believe it was independent of his hissy fit.
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Post by dennywilson on Nov 15, 2012 19:40:50 GMT
There is paperwork?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Nov 15, 2012 22:22:12 GMT
The story as far as I am aware is that Ian wanted to play Galaxy 4 at a convention and was told it was too late, it was already junked, upon which point he accosts Sue Malden (who had a big part to play in preserving what was left) and frightens her half to death That's pretty much incorrect in every detail, Daniel! ;D
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Post by Alex B on Nov 15, 2012 23:43:16 GMT
In fact, no Troughton's were re-aired in NZ until 2000 ... "The Dominators" in particular, which aired the same time I was in NZ. Actually "The Mind Robber" and "The Krotons" got their first airings in NZ in 1985 at the start of a lengthy run of episodes and "The Seeds of Death" was first shown in 1988 as part of the 25th anniversary celebrations. All three were repeated in 1991. For NZ screening history, see here: nzdwfc.tetrap.com/archive/timeandspace/
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Nov 16, 2012 0:37:10 GMT
sigh.. if only Ian was at Enterprises two years earlier We can thus conclude by reading this and the rest of the article that in 2030 or so, Paul V can send a message back to the BBC in around 1965 (or as far back as the late 50s), urging them not to wipe anything as it will be released in super-duper DVD format for future generations to watch at their leisure. I can confirm that today I did in fact get a message from my future self informing me of the whereabouts of all the missing episodes, and that I (in the future) remembered getting the message from me thirty years ago and found them back then, but had to remind myself to contact me in the future (my future present) otherwise I would forget resulting in an inverse DVD release date paradox inversion. Thankfully, I have embargoed the information until at least the 50th anniversary, which apparently went down a storm. Regards, Paul
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Post by John Andersen on Nov 16, 2012 0:40:08 GMT
In another thread called "Missing Episodes Dr. Who/Others Question", people were questioning the destruction of prints being returned from overseas stations. In that thread is also says returns from overseas were still being junked at BBC Enterprises without checking with the archive to see if they existed. Also in that thread, Paul Vanezis mentions "Over the past few years, a lot more information has come to light regarding overseas sales and the subsequent destruction of those prints. Once the information has been cross referenced and verified all will be revealed." The junking started forty years ago. The incident about returning overseas film prints being destroyed was around 1981. Peoples' memories from that far back can really fade over time, some employees might be dead by now, but paperwork is a trail that can't just be discarded. When Paul is mentioning cross referencing the information, it is logical to believe that a certain amount of paperwork has turned up that has gotten his attention. Paul will state his findings when he is absolutely sure. Just give him time to put the pieces together.
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Post by John Andersen on Nov 16, 2012 0:42:23 GMT
The story as far as I am aware is that Ian wanted to play Galaxy 4 at a convention and was told it was too late, it was already junked, upon which point he accosts Sue Malden (who had a big part to play in preserving what was left) and frightens her half to death That's pretty much incorrect in every detail, Daniel! ;D As Tom Baker once said, "Well, I can't get everything right."
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