Post by John Scott / NRRArchives on Oct 14, 2012 18:12:30 GMT
Hi Brett, hotrod and everybody else. I still can't figure out how to link specific questions when posting responses, so I'll just read and respond.
Dick Clark was actually disappointed that his "Best of Bandstand" release only sold 70,000 copies. ONLY 70,000? Ha. I'd be elated if I published something that sold 50,000. He decided not to go any further with future releases.
His licensing agreements were stringent. Whereas you could generally license footage from Steve Allen, Ed Sullivan, and other shows for what was called a Favored Nations agreement of $1500 per minute, Dick Clark set his price at $3000 - $5000 to use only a clip. And it would have to be a production done by a major network or production company. He didn't work with independents.
Now that Dick has passed, there is always a possibility that a DVD release might be in the future. It's mostly up to the record labels who usually want a licensing fee of $5000 to use the background track of each singer. Some record companies are more accommodating, but that price is typical. Besides, the shows no longer actually belong to Dick Clark. He sold them a few years back when he was becoming ill.
As far as numbers of episodes, Dick had approximately 60 -65 of the Beech-Nut shows. There were over 100 made. Some of the kinescopes had awful splices and some had bad optical audio tracks with lots of hissing or muffled sound. There might be a way to try to digitally overcome those flaws today. After all, for any release, the song would most likely be overdubbed with a CD version.
That's what he did for the Best of Bandstand release. The songs were overdubbed and they brought in a hand clapping machine which was synched to the rythm of the studio audience that clapped to the beat of the song. It's just the intro's and outro's that could have an issue because of the kinescope quality.
I see a few of the screeners that used to be sent out floating around on You Tube. Most of them have the time code, and in later years Dick insisted on have TWO time codes on the tape. What surprised me is that screeners were almost always sent out without the introduction or the interview. I was present during ony a handful of screeners being dubbed for viewing and they would always start it right at the beginning of the song. At times the VHS would even roll or glitch right at the opening, and then it was abruptly cut off at the conclusion of the song. The theory was that it was for screening purposes only and that it didn't have to be perfect.
Dick would never license or allow to be used any interview he conducted with an artist. Those were HIS babies and were not available for license. Only (and rarely) a clip from the actual performance.
Where the Action is. I remember a stack of reels that were in maybe 3 or 4 cartons. Many of them, like the American Bandstand episodes were incomplete. Where the Action is was an hour show, but sometimes they were housed on two 30 minute reels instead of one 60 minute reel. Remember, most of these even came about because ABC was dumping them all. Aty some point, someone called Dick and asked him if he wanted any of the shows before they were tossed. Of course he grabbed them. But we have always speculated that ABC had already tossed many, many cartons. After all, they had all the kinescopes but never foresaw any value or re-use, and they were taking up space.
The fire story is not true. There was no fire. Never was there a situation where only 'clips' of films remained, and that's what was used for those aniversary specials. Nor is it true that Dick has the Beech-Nut shows with Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens and was merely holding them back. Dick loved the spotlight. The rarity and worldwide recognition that would have come with Dick presenting the only known existing footage of Ritchie Valens and the only lip-synched Buddy Holly footage would have been an absolute delight. He really does not, and never did possess those kinescopes.
Regarding the transfer technology. You are absolutely right. With todays digitally enhanced capabilities, those shows could probably look almost like video or live TV. It's just that nobody wants to put the expense into it. Even though we all love the music and the performances, the belief is that the true 50's nostalgia craze of the late 70's and early 80's has passed. There will always be those of us who love it and want more and more, but those numbers just don't seem to hold up in a marketing campaign perspective. I personally don't agree, but they use research firms before making any decisions like that.
There are only a handful of pre-1964 American Bandstand tapes. BUT, one or two actual video tapes from American Bandstand from 1958 were discovered at ABC (mis-filed). I never had the opportunity to see them. The films and tapes are all stored in good, cliimate-controlled facilities, so they won't deteriorate. It's just that they sat in an ABC wherehouse for so many years without proper care.
If talks go well and a true definitive Beech-Nut show collection winds up going into production, then of course, all the episodes will be remastered. The only thing is they can't simply release all the shows in their entirety as they aired weekly back then because some of them are missing the openings or endings. Some of them had film or sprocket damage during a 1st or 2nd appearance within a show, so only the good one was transferred.
I remember Gene Weed had a bunch of the Shivaree kinescopes. He gave them all to Dick Clark because he was working for Dick. There are some other kinescopes in unrelated storage that I will need to get to one of these days. These are completely separate from Dick Clark's holdings. The next time I get to California I'll try to pull them out and get the transferred.
The later American Bandstand shows (a number from the mid 60's and early 70's) survived. Almost ALL of the subsequent ones exist on film and/or tape. Dick was good at keeping the ater episodes (70's and forward). He just didn't have or know that ABC had so many of the earlier kinescopes until they contacted him.
I'll still be posting, but my time schedule is so hectic right now, I only have any real time on Fridays and maybe Saturdays. But there are still more vintage performances to come.
Thanks again everybody. It's time for me to head out, but I'll be checking in frequently during the week.
you make some valid points there jt, and you seem to know what you are talking about. I checked out dcma but could not preview anything, but I bet licensing the footage don't come cheap, and I am sure the companies that do that may be a tad upset to see them on you tube....but I forever search yt in the hope of finding rare top of the pops clips!....and thankfully this forum is a great source of information regarding wiped stuff!
Post by John Scott / NRRArchives on Oct 19, 2012 22:45:41 GMT
First of Jthyme, I hadn't fully read your post on my channel. If I had realized just how snide it was, I wouldn't have sent you such a cordial e-mail explaining why I removed it. Now I see you have posted yet another snide message here. For one thing, I have no idea what your crusade is all about. I NEVER claimed to have the complete collection of Beech-Nut shows or Bandstand shows. I clearly indicated that I have the set of tapes that were the same ones used to upload the clips to the DCMA website. So whatever you claim to me supposedly having excess footage is, is completely imaginary on your part. I do have other kinescopes of rock 'n roll artists from other record hop and variety shows, but I never said I had other Dick Clark material.
I worked for Dick Clark back in 1976-1977. I then went to work for Dubs Inc. in Studio City. Dick used our facility for his media transfers. I was there when the Beech-Nut shows were transferred to 3/4" U-Matic tape. I had no part of "Where the Action Is" or the American Bandstand tapes. I merely remembered a couple of cartons of "Action" episodes. One was on a 1 hour reel. The other loose ones were on 30 minute reels. I also know when the Bandstand kinnys were sent over, it was said how incomplete the Philly episodes were because of missing reels and the 90 min/60 min broadcast time slots.
I do not like Where the Action Is. I have no interest in that music or those artists. I like the 50's and early 60's music. So, send me to the guillotine for mistakenly thinking WTAI was a one-hour show. It was hardly a criminal mistake. I remember the Shivaree episodes being dropped off by Gene Weed and us being told to do the transfers and send them over to Dick Clark. I couldn't have cared less about those episodes because I had no interest in that era or those artists.
And yes, you are correct, I can't do requests. I never said I could. I only have what was available to be uploaded on the DCMA site. Apart from the other kinescopes of 50's rock artists I have, I can only post what there is. So your total distortion of the facts completely boggles my mind. That was the reason I removed your post. I only read the first few lines and you were spewing out names of great artists from the 60's that would lead people to believe I have them available to post.
I signed into this forum to share some information that I had regarding questions about fires, and lost episodes, and rumors of Dick Clark hoarding the Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens clips. Also about survival of the Beech-Nut show kinesopes that Dick has. It was simply because I have first hand information. I didn't sign on for someone seemingly without better things to do than to twist and distort what I have said.
I will close with this ... the most recent comment to post to my channel as I am typing this is this one: "Wow you don't know what this means to me, thanks for the great upload".
I have had nothing but thanks, appreciation and overwhelming gratitude for taking the time to upload these clips so that everyone could enjoy them. I don't sell them. I'm making no money from having started this channel. You claim to have so much more in vintage clips, yet you have shared NOTHING with those who would love to see them. I spent the time to upload all of these. You seem to be doing alot of talking and criticizing, but ZERO sharing. People have not had the opportunity to see most of these clips. And if were in your hands, it seems they still wouldn't.
I've already proven my dedication to the music lover's forum. What have you proven? I'll leave the next space BLANK to illustrate the correct answer.
To everyone else on here and who has left wonderful comments on my channel, I thank you all and it is a pleasure to know you are all enjoying the performances. At least SOME of us can appreciate without distorted criticism.
John you're very kind to take the time to share your knowledge and your talent with us who appreciate what you're doing. As regards the other gobshites on here who constantly moan and whine on and on like the sad individuals that they are, don't demean yourself by even refering to them. You're a star, they on the other hand are idiots. Thomas (Dublin, Ireland)
Post by John Scott / NRRArchives on Oct 20, 2012 2:20:39 GMT
Thank you Thomas.
You, and those who share the true passion for a wonderful time gone by is the reason I am pleased to participate and feel welcomed here. I do have a few fun surprises to share on my channel. I just have to find the time to upload some more things, and then begin re-uploading all the original videos without that annoying gray bar covering 1/3 of the bottom of the screen and louder audio.
I appreciate your kind words Thomas. The collector's world can be a selfish world. I am glad to NOT be a part of it. I will soon be posting some other cool classic rock artists from my original kinescopes when the Beech-Nut stuff is done. I have only a handful more Dick Clark items to post.
Thank you for taking the time to post and I'm glad to be a part of this forum.
A large number of people posting in this thread under handles today. You all have PMs on the subject but to avoid further repetition, please read forum rules regarding this subject before posting again please! Thanks.
That's your choice, of course, but blame posters for not following / reading the forum rules, rather than the moderators. Several people here were reminded politely to amend their handles but they ignored this and carried on posting. Just so you know where the blame lies. There aren't many rules on here at all, in fact: keep it civil, don't link to torrent sites and don't use handles are three of the main ones.
Finally found a way to say thank you for all those lovely early Rock'n'Roll clips. That said, I don't know if it wasn't easier living with the idea that all those clips were gone forever than to live with the proof that they do exist in good quality (if only the same was true for the Clay Cole Show...) but will remain inaccessible unless Dick Clark Productions realizes that opening them for the general public could be rewarding. I see that this was done with some clips from the early Ed Sullivan shows although I cannot access these either living in Germany. Anyway, as I could contact you via email I wholeheartedly express my gratefulness here and if there's any chance for more of those early Rock'n'Roll and Doo Wop clips, please fire away. I'd love to see the Mystics or Passions.
I wonder if the owners of Dick Clark Productions have given approval to have all these videos posted on Youtube. If so, then well done to the concerned parties!! At least we know part of what is in those archives.
Hello everybody. I can't seem to find a way to respond to individual posts, so I'll have to respond in a general posting here. It's true, there's not much in the way of American Bandstand. And some of them are not complete shows. Sometimes only 1 of 3 reels exist of an episode. So when Dick used to put together a Bandstand Anniversary special, it would seem like he had everything under the sun. In reality, there isn't much. I mean, yes, there is alot of great footage and wonderful shows, but not nearly what people might expect. When it comes to the later episodes, yes, they all exist in 1" tape. I guess it depends on the person. I don't consider the shows from the 70's and 80's to be collectable I guess merely for my preference in music. My favorites would be from the 50's through the early 60's. It was great when we transferred the Beech-Nut shows to 3/4" U-matic tapes back in 1979-80. I kept a complete set of the VHS performance tapes. That's what was used for the DCMA website, so mine are a little less 'clipped'. I know everybody is looking for Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens in Dick's archives, but he really doesn't have those episodes. Even Dick doesn't have the complete set. He only has the films he has because back in (approximately 1971) ABC was cleaning out their warehouse and those were stacked to be dumped. A thoughtful person at ABC contacted Dick and told him that several large cartons of his old TV shows are slated for the scrap house and asked him if he wanted them instead. Dick was elated, and thus, this is how he has the somewhat limited collection he has. He was a saver of material things (papers, pictures, mementos), but he never sought to contractually be given a copy of each episode every week (or every day for Bandstand). In a way, while we all look back and think "Ha! I'd have insisted on an actual TAPE of every episode", it really wasn't practicle back then, and only if you wanted to drag out a 16mm projector and show it to friends and family, it wasn't thought to do. Nobody thought about the future of 50's notalgia, home video recorders and the desire to see these LIVE shows again. Nowadays we all know what we'd do if we had VCR's and could go back in time. I have seen some great vintage UK performances of artists like Tommy Steele and Cliff Richard. So in some cases things were saved. Here in the USA, the networks were guilty of the same abandonment. They were merely heavy reels of old films that would never be re-used, so they were dumped. The 2" quad videos were wiped and re-used. I have some 2" quad network broadcasts from CBS, but not of any music shows (unfortunatey). By the way, how strange. My original post seems to have re-appeared. It was deleted (because I only had NRRArchives and not my personal name - which I didn't realise one had to do) so I re-posted it. Now my original is back and the re-post is gone. Hmmm. Oh well, it's all good. Anyway, the original American Bandstand ran 90 minutes each day (in Philadelphia) and 60 minutes elsewhere. During all that time, there were only a few singers that would appear. The majority was dancing, talking to the kids and rating records. It was the Beech-Nut show that was almost a non-stop parade of great talent. I still have to get to storage and dig out more tapes. There are multiple more episodes that either Dick never had, or are not part of the DCMA site. So, albeit a little slow perhaps, there is much more to come. I know there are many 60's fans out there and I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate those posts. The wild go-go dancers and hair flying about just doesn't blend well with the subdued manner of the kids on the Beech-Nut show. I might start a separate You Tube channel for the 60's Bandstand performances. As far as the 3 season's of Beech-Nut shows, there are episodes from each season, and yes, I'll be posting all the performances I have, little by little. Now there were a few sad occasions where some kinescopes either had sprocket damage or very, very bad splicing all through a performance. Thus an additional performance by an artist on the same day may have never been transferred. So if you check any on-line lists of guest stars on the show and see, for example "Ooh, Eddie Cochran did an interview and another song" yet only one performance is posted, it's because the other couldn't be transferred (back in 1979). Technology has changed now and sprocket damage may not always be an issue. So it's possible that some of those kinny's can be re-transferred at some time. Also, if there is only 1 of 2 performances posted, the uploads are not in any particular order, so it may still be coming with additional uploads. I don't want to crash the system by writing too much in a single post, but I'll stick around and continue posting on this site. I really like it. It's a great way to communicate with those who truly have a passion for historic televsion without the sole greed to sell. It's great to be here and thank you Phillip and Alan for your welcoming messages. Take care everybody. Any questions, feel free to ask.
John: I'm looking for information about a clip from the Beechnut Show second season, Episode 23. It is by a one-hit wonder group named the Bell Notes. The song is "I've Had It". Video of this group is rare. Is there any chance this clip exists?