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Post by Paul Vanezis on Sept 21, 2012 11:13:35 GMT
Yes,
Always new lines of enquiry.
Over the past 3 months in fact I've chased about 6 good leads, four with film collectors who thought they had DW material. All of them had DW related stuff, but no episodes and some are things we'd already chased years back. It's good to know how things have changed hands, but it doesn't add anything else to our knowledge of the life of syndication prints or ex BBC copies I'm afraid.
Overseas, it's a different story. There have been general successes with non Doctor Who material; some you know about such as 'The Sky at Night' and I can reveal that a lost light entertainment show was located in a foreign archive...however, I can't say what it is at the moment for two reasons. Firstly, the film is so vinegar that it is swimming in a tar like substance. Both the BFi and the BBC have examined it and say they can't do anything with it. Secondly, I'm going to have one final last minute extreme attempt at getting something off it and if I do it will be a great thing to have.
Sorry I can't say more.
But I'm as confident as I can be that specific areas have been exhausted when it comes to the search overseas for DW.
Paul
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Sept 21, 2012 13:32:06 GMT
Secondly, I'm going to have one final last minute extreme attempt at getting something off it Totally imagining you in a mad-scientist costume now.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Sept 21, 2012 14:14:33 GMT
Secondly, I'm going to have one final last minute extreme attempt at getting something off it Totally imagining you in a mad-scientist costume now. This film is in such poor condition it requires the use of a fume cupboard and/or a gas mask and goggles. And yes, a white coat or some other protection and some fairly powerful solvents. Paul
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Post by Steven Sigel on Sept 21, 2012 15:35:03 GMT
I've seen prints in the condition that Paul mentions -- I've never tried to recover anything that far gone, but in theory, if there's still an image left, it can be scanned a frame at a time and then digitally processed to fix the distortion from shrinkage. But that would be really expensive... Soundtrack would be more problematic.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Sept 21, 2012 16:47:01 GMT
I've seen prints in the condition that Paul mentions -- I've never tried to recover anything that far gone, but in theory, if there's still an image left, it can be scanned a frame at a time and then digitally processed to fix the distortion from shrinkage. But that would be really expensive... Soundtrack would be more problematic. Paul: Must be something important to attempt recovering it. Good luck. And as for the mad scientist getup, you'll do Professor Zaroff proud I'm sure.
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Post by George D on Sept 21, 2012 21:14:08 GMT
I too appreciate not only what Paul has done but what he has shared.
A lot of times the unknown always generate questions which he has answered. For example, it brings closure knowing nothing came from those film collectors which he was persuing.
Its interesting to remember that in 1983 during the peak of the recovery, these shows were still in syndication apx 10 years earlier. It was like finding 10 year old prints. Now, it's 40 years ago.. although still possible.. the probablilies become less and the amount of places to look become fewer.
One thing Paul brought out was that we tend to think is we think current/static compared to the big picture. When we found 2 episodes we were excited expecting that to continue. Many of the rumors come to those with that mindframe. However, with the new information of a major losses, many believe its much more hopeless. Perhaps the reality is somewhere between the two as Paul described earlier. And that similiar to a time before December where several years went by without a recovery yet there was always hope of another appearing. Nothing about the big picture changed. Just the data and where we are on the recovery timeline has changed.
One question i have on the vinegared print, was i thought that was a characteristic of nitrate film. Wasnt most of the bbc shows done on safely film which wouldnt decay like that? It makes me wonder if we're talking about something 1940s or 50s. Whatever it is, im thanking you in advance for leaving no stone unturned and I know youre doing your best.
Also, Im hoping Paul reveals some more information on Sierra Leone. For example, how come Ian's contact then failed to uncover anything? Also, if we can recover something like the vinegar print, what evidence or details are there that reinforce there might not be a reel or partial reel buried in Sierra Leone.
But we have to remember the true needle in a haystack project this has become and we have to remember the many hours of long work that are going into the recovery, not knowing how many years in the future, if at all, the next find will appear.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Sept 21, 2012 21:22:18 GMT
@george - Vinegar is a problem with Acetate safety film where the cellulose Acetate breaks down into acetic acid. Nitrate has it's own problems, but not vinegar... Nitrate was long out of the picture by the 60s, and was basically never used for 16mm (there's some eastern european stock which may be nitrate, but never in the US or UK). Also - a film that was "burried" would have moisture damage to the emulsion and that's a far worse problem.. Here's an example of a film with MINOR water damage (along the edges) -- imagine if the entire frame was melted away like that, and that's what you would have.. www.16mm-films.net/who/whodamage.avi
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Post by George D on Sept 21, 2012 21:29:43 GMT
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Sept 21, 2012 22:51:29 GMT
Also, Im hoping Paul reveals some more information on Sierra Leone. For example, how come Ian's contact then failed to uncover anything? Also, if we can recover something like the vinegar print, what evidence or details are there that reinforce there might not be a reel or partial reel buried in Sierra Leone. Hi George. I can't say much about Sierra Leone apart from saying there is no DW there. Some material was there in 1984 and we believe other material was there until the storage facility was shelled in 1999. Ian's contact? Ian who? As for material being buried? Well, the building was shelled and burned to the ground. Paul
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Post by John Andersen on Sept 22, 2012 0:33:09 GMT
The future of missing episode recoveries is as healthy as it was before the recoveries of last year and that's the best we can hope for. Paul The prognosis is that bad, huh? ;D Thanks for the other information concerning rumors. There has been a lot of garbage circulating about The Web of Fear, Fury From The Deep, The Moonbase, The Ice Warriors, and episodes from other Troughton stories over the last few months. At least I will know not to expect a lost classic ending up on DVD for the 50th Anniversary. With all those rumors, one would think that people out there are trying to start a riot.
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Post by Brad Phipps on Sept 22, 2012 1:40:38 GMT
Gosh, with all this recent talk about film can labels, Australian censor clips and vinegar syndrome for film it just makes my missing episode discovery last week so damn boring. Oh well, back in the sock drawer she goes.
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Post by Kelly Davies on Sept 22, 2012 2:58:28 GMT
Reading about Sierra Leone makes me cry. Is it known if, when or how much was actually aired? 1984 is kinda getting into the VHS age.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Sept 22, 2012 2:59:31 GMT
Gosh, with all this recent talk about film can labels, Australian censor clips and vinegar syndrome for film it just makes my missing episode discovery last week so damn boring. Oh well, back in the sock drawer she goes. You're a cruel cruel man. Also, who keeps films with their socks? BTW, you might want to clarify that you're making a joke. Just for the sake of those who are on edge.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Sept 22, 2012 3:03:43 GMT
Reading about Sierra Leone makes me cry. Is it known if, when or how much was actually aired? 1984 is kinda getting into the VHS age. The BroadWcast website is useful for answering broadcast dates. gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/Sierra_LeoneSierra Leone purchased many Hartnell serials and aired them in the late 60s and early 70s. What use they saw between then and their destruction I'm not sure, but I doubt they were re-broadcasted.
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Post by John Andersen on Sept 22, 2012 4:22:39 GMT
Hey John, Thanks so much for your thoughts. While I think you meant to be addressing Greg's comment, I think all of us are in agreement at how disappointed the news has been this year. Actually, I was trying to address both comments. I just got the names confused.
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