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Post by Phil Leach on Sept 20, 2013 11:04:33 GMT
Yes and it's been released on DVD by Network. Never understand why people upload things from easily available DVDs?! Anyway the material that does exist from the Palladium shows that has not been released includes: 2 October 1966 - NBC telerecording as mentioned above including Kate Smith and Tom Jones - Morecambe and Wise were on this show are they on the recording too? 25 September 1966 - another NBC telerecording held in private hands mentioned on this board a while ago - introduced by Millicent Martin also including Roger Moore 17 June 1962 - 20 minute section featuring Lisa Kirk held by UCLA (this must be the only Norman Vaughan show existing) The off air video bits held by Kaleidoscope from the Monkhouse collection - 2 April 1967; 9 April 1967; 16 April 1967; 30 April 1967; 28 May 1967. And the off air bit from 19 January 1969. The Palladium shows were sold as compilations to the USA as far back as the late 1950s by ITC so something else could turn up one day - who knows?
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Oct 17, 2014 11:13:24 GMT
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Post by George D on Oct 18, 2014 13:54:00 GMT
The original poster claims that the audio of the show exists.
While Dr who audios are sought after and in circulation, I think we have missed the mark cataloging and circulating audio from other missing UK tv shows
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Post by davidalp on Jan 20, 2015 21:33:25 GMT
Hi Guys; Well... I am back again, after two years!! And am still on the trail for the lost 1969 Judy Garland segment on "The Palladium Show", broadcast on January 19th 1969. Ray; I would like to thank you for bringing to light that 19 second fragment of Judy taking her bows after singing her three songs. This was definitely the fragment that I mentioned in my original post (in 2012) that was included in the 1972 "Omnibus" [Impressions Of Garland] programme. This goes to prove that as of 1972 the footage must have still existed somewhere? Otherwise where would the BBC have got that footage from? So my first question is should we/I contact the BBC to enquire about the footage? They might have the entire 12 minute segment lying in their vaults? Anyway; just to bring everyone up to speed about what happened in the last two years is this... I sent Chris Perry (I think it was Chris Perry???) from Kaleidoscope an Email or a post message (?), [now lost], about all of this and he got back to me saying that to his knowledge a lady in Wales recorded the show live on a very early home video recorder! I started to get really excited about this and pressed for more information. Sadly he said that to his knowledge only Judy's 3 minute Overture was recorded before either the tape ran out; or the lady stopped the recording. He said he actually had the tape up in his loft, and it had been there for years, but he hadn't viewed it for years. I asked would he mind viewing it for me so I could at least have some news for the people and the fans at The Judy Room www.thejudyroom.com/#sthash.G1BDkNf1.dpbs However after several months of me waiting for him to check his loft, he never got back to me, and I felt like I was just pestering him, so I gave up... Anyway I'm back now!!! And am raring to go with tracking this down!! Other news! I managed to find a FULL 8 minutes of Judy's 1963 "Sunday Night At The London Palladium" spot on YouTube. Her segment begins at 01:28 and then continues for a full eight minutes. Notice how the video footage counter at the bottom of the screen appears; then disappears when she sings "Smile". Then appears again when she sings "I Could Go On Singing" -- but then disappears again mid-song, and we cut/fade to a much clearer resolution videotape, meaning that there must be at least two copies of this footage/videotape, (one copy much better than the other), and someone has "cobbled" the two together to give the watcher the best possible viewing experience. (btw, what is still missing from this YouTube clip is Judy singing her opening number " Almost Like Being In Love/This Can't Be Love" -- and also " Comes Once In A Lifetime" which she sang after " Smile"). I have a sneaky suspicion that the only reason this footage survived is because it crossed the Atlantic to America to be featured on "The Ed Sullivan Show" -- as per Sullivan's appearance at the end. I think maybe his show (was it CBS???) saw Judy on the Palladium show and then "cherry picked" the two best songs to feature on his show; and somehow they survived being wiped. Of note [regarding this 1963 spot] was that Garland messed up the "edited out" song " Comes Once In A Lifetime" three times at the beginning. She then halted the entire live show and the song, and the orchestra saying, "Come on let's just stop -- we can even stop on television!! -- I can make just as many mistakes -- whaaat's the maddda with babababa???" -- and then she sang the song in full -- but I bet that's why Sullivan didn't want that particular song featured. (I have the full audio you see to both the 1963 and the 1969 shows) Finally; I just want to address Ken Griffin's post from May 6th 2012, on this thread, where he states below: Quote: Judging by that's night TV listings, there was a four-way split on the network but probably two copies at most.
1. LWT, Granada, Harlech, Anglia, Grampian: 7.25pm [Live]
2. Border: 9.10pm
3. ATV, Yorkshire, Ulster, Westward, Channel: 10.20pm
4. Tyne Tees, Scottish, Southern: No screening
Showing 1 was live and I guess that showing 3 was a single copy played out by ATV but showing 2 possibly was a recording made by Border - they were showing a film locally at that stage so it could have potentially been done.
END OF QUOTE.... Can someone just explain fully how in those days they would transmit a (supposedly) "live" television show from all these different regions, at different times? 9:10pm for "Border" -- and 10:20pm for those others.... Would "Border" and "ATV" and "Yorkshire" and "Ulster" and "Westward" and "Channel" have made a filmed kinescope of the live show being broadcast at 7:25pm by LWT, and then broadcast it later in their regions and "pass it off" as being live? For example on "Yorkshire" TV it was broadcast at 10:20pm, so how was that physically/technically done? This now also begs the question of should I contact all of these regional channels (such as "Yorkshire TV" etc) to see if they kept a copy of the 1969 show? And it also begs the question of if it were copied onto a B&W film Kinescope then it couldn't be wiped as only tape can be wiped. But then again if it were copied onto tape, it might have been wiped?
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 21, 2015 10:36:10 GMT
Hi Guys; Well... I am back again, after two years!! And am still on the trail for the lost 1969 Judy Garland segment on "The Palladium Show", broadcast on January 19th 1969. Ray; I would like to thank you for bringing to light that 19 second fragment of Judy taking her bows after singing her three songs. This was definitely the fragment that I mentioned in my original post (in 2012) that was included in the 1972 "Omnibus" [Impressions Of Garland] programme. This goes to prove that as of 1972 the footage must have still existed somewhere? Otherwise where would the BBC have got that footage from? So my first question is should we/I contact the BBC to enquire about the footage? They might have the entire 12 minute segment lying in their vaults? Anyway; just to bring everyone up to speed about what happened in the last two years is this... I sent Chris Perry (I think it was Chris Perry???) from Kaleidoscope an Email or a post message (?), [now lost], about all of this and he got back to me saying that to his knowledge a lady in Wales recorded the show live on a very early home video recorder! I started to get really excited about this and pressed for more information. Sadly he said that to his knowledge only Judy's 3 minute Overture was recorded before either the tape ran out; or the lady stopped the recording. He said he actually had the tape up in his loft, and it had been there for years, but he hadn't viewed it for years. I asked would he mind viewing it for me so I could at least have some news for the people and the fans at The Judy Room www.thejudyroom.com/#sthash.G1BDkNf1.dpbs However after several months of me waiting for him to check his loft, he never got back to me, and I felt like I was just pestering him, so I gave up... Anyway I'm back now!!! And am raring to go with tracking this down!! Other news! I managed to find a FULL 8 minutes of Judy's 1963 "Sunday Night At The London Palladium" spot on YouTube. Her segment begins at 01:28 and then continues for a full eight minutes. Notice how the video footage counter at the bottom of the screen appears; then disappears when she sings "Smile". Then appears again when she sings "I Could Go On Singing" -- but then disappears again mid-song, and we cut/fade to a much clearer resolution videotape, meaning that there must be at least two copies of this footage/videotape, (one copy much better than the other), and someone has "cobbled" the two together to give the watcher the best possible viewing experience. (btw, what is still missing from this YouTube clip is Judy singing her opening number " Almost Like Being In Love/This Can't Be Love" -- and also " Comes Once In A Lifetime" which she sang after " Smile"). I have a sneaky suspicion that the only reason this footage survived is because it crossed the Atlantic to America to be featured on "The Ed Sullivan Show" -- as per Sullivan's appearance at the end. I think maybe his show (was it CBS???) saw Judy on the Palladium show and then "cherry picked" the two best songs to feature on his show; and somehow they survived being wiped. Of note [regarding this 1963 spot] was that Garland messed up the "edited out" song " Comes Once In A Lifetime" three times at the beginning. She then halted the entire live show and the song, and the orchestra saying, "Come on let's just stop -- we can even stop on television!! -- I can make just as many mistakes -- whaaat's the maddda with babababa???" -- and then she sang the song in full -- but I bet that's why Sullivan didn't want that particular song featured. (I have the full audio you see to both the 1963 and the 1969 shows) Finally; I just want to address Ken Griffin's post from May 6th 2012, on this thread, where he states below: Quote: Judging by that's night TV listings, there was a four-way split on the network but probably two copies at most.
1. LWT, Granada, Harlech, Anglia, Grampian: 7.25pm [Live]
2. Border: 9.10pm
3. ATV, Yorkshire, Ulster, Westward, Channel: 10.20pm
4. Tyne Tees, Scottish, Southern: No screening
Showing 1 was live and I guess that showing 3 was a single copy played out by ATV but showing 2 possibly was a recording made by Border - they were showing a film locally at that stage so it could have potentially been done.
END OF QUOTE.... Can someone just explain fully how in those days they would transmit a (supposedly) "live" television show from all these different regions, at different times? 9:10pm for "Border" -- and 10:20pm for those others.... Would "Border" and "ATV" and "Yorkshire" and "Ulster" and "Westward" and "Channel" have made a filmed kinescope of the live show being broadcast at 7:25pm by LWT, and then broadcast it later in their regions and "pass it off" as being live? For example on "Yorkshire" TV it was broadcast at 10:20pm, so how was that physically/technically done? This now also begs the question of should I contact all of these regional channels (such as "Yorkshire TV" etc) to see if they kept a copy of the 1969 show? And it also begs the question of if it were copied onto a B&W film Kinescope then it couldn't be wiped as only tape can be wiped. But then again if it were copied onto tape, it might have been wiped? Magnificent work David!The likelihood of a 'Regional' copy existing is low. I can provide archive contact details, but I expect there is a greater likelihood of a copy existing in the US. Nothing ventured, though, nothing gained.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 21, 2015 10:39:18 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW4606tYbE8""Missing episode in programme (VAL PARNELL'S) SUNDAY NIGHT AT THE LONDON PALLADIUM. Series 8 10.03.63 with Judy Garland, The King Brothers, The Modern Jazz Dancers, The Tiller Girls, Jack Parnell and his Orchestra (missing)""
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jan 21, 2015 17:06:01 GMT
Can someone just explain fully how in those days they would transmit a (supposedly) "live" television show from all these different regions, at different times? 9:10pm for "Border" -- and 10:20pm for those others.... Would "Border" and "ATV" and "Yorkshire" and "Ulster" and "Westward" and "Channel" have made a filmed kinescope of the live show being broadcast at 7:25pm by LWT, and then broadcast it later in their regions and "pass it off" as being live? For example on "Yorkshire" TV it was broadcast at 10:20pm, so how was that physically/technically done? This now also begs the question of should I contact all of these regional channels (such as "Yorkshire TV" etc) to see if they kept a copy of the 1969 show? And it also begs the question of if it were copied onto a B&W film Kinescope then it couldn't be wiped as only tape can be wiped. But then again if it were copied onto tape, it might have been wiped? It was a relatively straightforward process which frequently occurred throughout ITV's history. All ITV stations (except Channel) were connected to each other via a lines network, through which they could receive material. Channel received an off-air feed of whatever Westward were showing. In terms of that specific episode of the London Palladium, the scenario was probably as follows: 1. The episode was broadcast live by ATV to LWT, Granada, Harlech, Anglia and Grampian at 7.25pm. The live feed was videotaped off-air by ATV and was also sent down the line to Border Television. Border would also tape a copy off-air, which they would use for their 9.10pm transmission. 2. At 10.20pm, ATV would replay the tape it record earlier for transmission in its local region but also send it down the line network for Yorkshire, Ulster and Westward to screen. Channel would have rebroadcast Westward's off-air signal. There would have been no 16mm kinescope/telerecording made at the time of transmission. UK television stations did not have the hot kine facilities utilised in the US.
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Post by davidalp on Jan 22, 2015 0:50:26 GMT
1. Border would also tape a copy off-air, which they would use for their 9.10pm transmission. Thank you Ray, and Thank You Ken! You have been SO helpful! So would it seem as if my first port of call would be to try asking Border Television if they happened to keep their copy in their archives? (he says very hopefully...)
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 22, 2015 9:01:30 GMT
1. Border would also tape a copy off-air, which they would use for their 9.10pm transmission. Thank you Ray, and Thank You Ken! You have been SO helpful! So would it seem as if my first port of call would be to try asking Border Television if they happened to keep their copy in their archives? (he says very hopefully...) Ken knows more than physical archives than myself, but Border stuff can reside in a number of places. ITN Source have some, STV have some and the BFI have some. I think they are the chief three. If you need any more help, message me on here. Many thanks, Ray.
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jan 22, 2015 15:04:39 GMT
So would it seem as if my first port of call would be to try asking Border Television if they happened to keep their copy in their archives? (he says very hopefully...) Border TV doesn't exist anymore - the rights would be held with ITV. Like many old regional archives, ITV have split it into two keeping the commercially valuable and unidentified stuff for themselves. They donated the rest to the University of Cumbria. Your first port of call would be ITN Source, who sell footage on behald of ITV.
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Post by davidalp on Jan 24, 2015 2:29:53 GMT
Yes but what about this site that I've just found regarding Border??? Is it worth contacting Mr Tony Steer on the number at the bottom? bufvc.ac.uk/archives/index.php/collection/74Description
Border Television serves all but the extreme south of Cumbria, the Isle of Man, Dumfries and Galloway, and Scottish Borders. Holdings include news and current affairs, sport, documentary, light entertainment, music, children’s programmes, travel and local interest material. Website www.itvregions.com/borderKeywords
Isle of Man; Cumbria; Borders region, Scotland; Carlisle; Dumfries and Galloway Access
Access ia available but limited. Both film research staff are involved closely with the newsroom whose requirements take priority as such research for outside bodies is done when there is available time. In situations where very old or obscure items are being sought the research time required can be considerable, although as more data is transferred onto the computer system it is projected that this should improve. Copyright
Copyright advice and costings can be gained from either Tony Steer, Adrian Mallinson or Ken Wynne. There are charges for research for broadcast purposes, VHS viewing off premises, research for academic use, for facilities and handling, viewing on site, broadcast rights and other services. Please note that blooper footage is limited and that use of such footage must be agreed upon by the Director of Programmes. Equally so, all Border footage of sporting events must be cleared for broadcast with the relevant sporting body before it can be used. Moving Image, Audio and Related Documentation Holdings Video/FilmFilm, 1 inch, VHS, Beta and Digi formats. Studio footage is limited and there are no full broadcast quality examples of the regional news programme in existence, though VHS logs have been kept since 1997. (Attempts are underway to build a Lookaround digital log library, however.) Storage: One-inch tapes of programmes and camera rushes are stored in a nearby warehouse and recorded on computer, while all 2-inch programmes are held by the National Film and Television Archive. Again, the prior system for recording programmes and camera rushes was haphazard and, as such, items have been lost over time. However, a full stock-take of what is in existence has now been taken and all current programmes in production are recorded under a system that records individual camera tape, what is on each tape, where it is located, or by whom it is currently being used. Catalogues
Computerised database The Library has documented on a new computer system all regional news and sports packages held on Beta since 1987, along with all programmes produced and in production since 1999. All items and programmes prior to that are held on film or Beta and are registered on a manual system which is slowly being transferred to the computer system. Documentation in the past has been somewhat lax and, as such, locating older programmes can take time. This again is constantly being improved upon and entered on the computer. The Library has undergone restructuring and re-staffing in the last two years and now a full cataloguing and classification project is underway, along with a strict policy on data storage and information retrieval. Main Contact
Name Mr. Tony Steer Job title Film Research Manager Telephone 01228 525101 Fax 01228 541384 Email dutyoffice@itv.com Address Border Television plc Television Centre Harraby Industrial Estate Carlisle CA1 3NT Alternate Contact Name Mr Adrian Mallinson, Film Research Assistant
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jan 24, 2015 8:49:52 GMT
Yes but what about this site that I've just found regarding Border??? Is it worth contacting Mr Tony Steer on the number at the bottom? That website is around ten years out of date. The premises listed shut in c.2008.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 26, 2015 10:02:57 GMT
1. Border would also tape a copy off-air, which they would use for their 9.10pm transmission. Thank you Ray, and Thank You Ken! You have been SO helpful! So would it seem as if my first port of call would be to try asking Border Television if they happened to keep their copy in their archives? (he says very hopefully...) I have messaged you with some contact details regarding ITN Source and the BFI.
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Post by davidalp on Aug 27, 2017 20:46:29 GMT
Yes and it's been released on DVD by Network. Never understand why people upload things from easily available DVDs?! Anyway the material that does exist from the Palladium shows that has not been released includes: 2 October 1966 - NBC telerecording as mentioned above including Kate Smith and Tom Jones - Morecambe and Wise were on this show are they on the recording too? 25 September 1966 - another NBC telerecording held in private hands mentioned on this board a while ago - introduced by Millicent Martin also including Roger Moore 17 June 1962 - 20 minute section featuring Lisa Kirk held by UCLA (this must be the only Norman Vaughan show existing) The off air video bits held by Kaleidoscope from the Monkhouse collection - 2 April 1967; 9 April 1967; 16 April 1967; 30 April 1967; 28 May 1967. And the off air bit from 19 January 1969. The Palladium shows were sold as compilations to the USA as far back as the late 1950s by ITC so something else could turn up one day - who knows? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay; so I must have missed this post four years ago.. Anyway, the narrative above states that the "off air bit from 19th January 1969" is being held by "Kaleidoscope". Can someone give me the contact details to "Kaleidoscope" so I can contact them about getting / or viewing whatever is existing from 19th January 1969. Thanks guys in advance.
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,857
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Post by RWels on Aug 28, 2017 16:11:56 GMT
Best to contact Chris Perry, I think?
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