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Post by John Green on Mar 7, 2021 14:29:54 GMT
A lot to think about in your post, Paul. Thankfully, it isn't an Archbuild situation, with material scattered to the four winds. Whether shows are listed as missing or not, if their agreement with Network means that a commercial release is viable, it thankfully goes ahead. I can fully accept that companies may feel that they don't have to prioritise the interests of trainspotters-and I speak as a former trainspotter (surprise, surprise).
Generally, I'm hoping that DVDs, streaming, and Talking Pictures will continue to ensure that enthusiasts, and the general public, can continue to catch sight of marginal shows.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Mar 8, 2021 10:31:45 GMT
A lot to think about in your post, Paul. Thankfully, it isn't an Archbuild situation, with material scattered to the four winds. Whether shows are listed as missing or not, if their agreement with Network means that a commercial release is viable, it thankfully goes ahead. I can fully accept that companies may feel that they don't have to prioritise the interests of trainspotters-and I speak as a former trainspotter (surprise, surprise). Generally, I'm hoping that DVDs, streaming, and Talking Pictures will continue to ensure that enthusiasts, and the general public, can continue to catch sight of marginal shows. Hi John, Nothing wrong with trainspotters. But even trainspotters can't be in all places at the same time. I think it's fair to say that there is a lot of lost television that will never be seen again. I have said in the past that I don't mourn a lot of it and some believe that view is heresy. But I have seen some of what has been kept and to be honest, you do have to wonder why they bothered even making some programmes, when at the same time important drama, entertainment and factual programmes were being wiped. For those that don't know what the Archbuild situation is, there is obviously no official archive of AR shows (the copyright of which is mostly owned by Archbuild) apart from at the BFI, and sadly that is not catalogued as a collection but a disparate pool of titles in the bigger archive. Whilst I am ever in awe of the BFI collection of television shows, I do feel that there needs to be a different approach to television content when it comes to preservation. The point I'm making is with regard to the 'surprise' that material exists in official archives that many thought were lost. And why did some think those shows were lost? Because these archives are working archives that serve their business, not ours. The easiest thing in the world to do is to state an entire series is missing or incomplete and base that assumption on what you know exists outside of the official archive in which the content might survive. The Adventures of Rupert Bear; widely reported as being mostly lost. All survived at ITV, the obvious place it was likely to be. It was never missing. Space Patrol; only one episode known to survive. Apart from the entire collection that was with the copyright holder. When you think about it logically, Space Patrol was widely distributed by the original production company, so it makes sense the rights holder would have retained copies. Man of Straw; widely reported as being wiped, including by its star Derek Jacobi and its director Herbie Wise. It was sitting in the BBC archive all the time, exactly where anyone with the most basic knowledge of archive television would expect to find it. That being said, I have in the past three years located two important film collections, one an archive of 'lost' television films (not lost, but with the rights holder) and the other a collection of a single directors work, most of which were important cinema short features. Whilst these were not thought lost, both collections were at risk. Not anymore. In looking into the latter, a new avenue of research uncovered fresh material. This new knowledge has already allowed other material to be revealed... in official archives; and let's not forget about Worzel Gummidge, the master materials of which 'went missing' but then turned up... exactly where the rights holder had left them. I don't believe any archive database anymore and always go directly to official archives where I can. Paul
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Post by Peter Stirling on Mar 8, 2021 11:06:39 GMT
The point I'm making is with regard to the 'surprise' that material exists in official archives that many thought were lost. And why did some think those shows were lost? Because these archives are working archives that serve their business, not ours. The easiest thing in the world to do is to state an entire series is missing or incomplete and base that assumption on what you know exists outside of the official archive in which the content might survive. The Adventures of Rupert Bear; widely reported as being mostly lost. All survived at ITV, the obvious place it was likely to be. It was never missing. Space Patrol; only one episode known to survive. Apart from the entire collection that was with the copyright holder. When you think about it logically, Space Patrol was widely distributed by the original production company, so it makes sense the rights holder would have retained copies. Man of Straw; widely reported as being wiped, including by its star Derek Jacobi and its director Herbie Wise. It was sitting in the BBC archive all the time, exactly where anyone with the most basic knowledge of archive television would expect to find it. That being said, I have in the past three years located two important film collections, one an archive of 'lost' television films (not lost, but with the rights holder) and the other a collection of a single directors work, most of which were important cinema short features. Whilst these were not thought lost, both collections were at risk. Not anymore. In looking into the latter, a new avenue of research uncovered fresh material. This new knowledge has already allowed other material to be revealed... in official archives; and let's not forget about Worzel Gummidge, the master materials of which 'went missing' but then turned up... exactly where the rights holder had left them. I don't believe any archive database anymore and always go directly to official archives where I can. Paul The long running anthology show 'Douglas Fairbanks Jrn. presents' was reported as lost with only dribs and drabs of 16mm personal copies turning up - was distributed by British Lion so its logical to assume whoever owns BL now possibly has the full series? .
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,857
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Post by RWels on Mar 8, 2021 13:21:22 GMT
What probably doesn't help either is that some programs are marketed as "lost" - they were rediscovered, let's say, at the Library of Congress. Talk about hiding in plain sight! How was anyone supposed to find it there(!)!
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Post by John Wall on Mar 8, 2021 13:55:46 GMT
Things aren’t helped by “lost” meaning different things at different times.
TPTV seem to use it to mean copies recovered from collectors that didn’t exist in an archive or things that haven’t been available for decades but were safe and sound in an archive somewhere.
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,857
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Post by RWels on Mar 8, 2021 14:16:21 GMT
Things aren’t helped by “lost” meaning different things at different times. TPTV seem to use it to mean copies recovered from collectors that didn’t exist in an archive or things that haven’t been available for decades but were safe and sound in an archive somewhere. TPTV seem to do a good job, from what I hear, with limited resources... I don't begrudge them a bit of marketing... But from limited experience I know though that some people are lazy, and researchers are people... There's for example a British book on "Pride & Prejudice" (I think it was the "Cambridge Companion"...) that states for a fact that the 1967 BBC TV series seems to have vanished completely. A simple viewing room appointment at the BFI would have sufficed, even assuming the BBC were uncooperative. (And the book was recent enough for this, obviously it would be different if it was written last century.)
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