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Post by B Thomas on Dec 15, 2011 22:08:44 GMT
Perhaps it's worth remembering that although there's no direct link (the early Who's weren't sold to the U.S.) there's been almost half a century for material to pass into intermediate hands. The problem with that sort of logic is, you'd end up thinking lost episodes that were sent to Ghana could have been passed into intermediate hands and ended up in Somalia, so why not look there as well... Ooooh, don't Jon! I got sent straight back to Curmudgeon's Corner for mentioning something similar... *Mind you, I probably wasn't as concilatory as you...
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Post by Rob Moss on Dec 15, 2011 22:34:28 GMT
Perhaps it's worth remembering that although there's no direct link (the early Who's weren't sold to the U.S.) there's been almost half a century for material to pass into intermediate hands. The problem with that sort of logic is, you'd end up thinking lost episodes that were sent to Ghana could have been passed into intermediate hands and ended up in Somalia, so why not look there as well... Probably worth pointing out that if that had happened, we would be talking private collectors as opposed to tv stations, just in case people start phoning up Somalia TV.
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Post by John Green on Dec 15, 2011 22:47:14 GMT
I'm sorry if this seems absurd. It just seemed to me that the USA is a rather large country with a population that is in global terms quite well off.Private VCRs and cinemas for that matter aren't that uncommon.While I'm aware that Doctor Who wasn't sold to the U.S. until the 70s,I don't see why some of the missing stories couldn't have wound up there In practical terms,the original owners/collectors may well have died and the widows donated the collection to institutions. Only a thought; I'm sure that Africa has actually proved far more fertile in uncovering Who episodes over the last 20 years.
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Post by John Andersen on Dec 15, 2011 23:35:07 GMT
I'm sorry if this seems absurd. It just seemed to me that the USA is a rather large country with a population that is in global terms quite well off.Private VCRs and cinemas for that matter aren't that uncommon.While I'm aware that Doctor Who wasn't sold to the U.S. until the 70s,I don't see why some of the missing stories couldn't have wound up there In practical terms,the original owners/collectors may well have died and the widows donated the collection to institutions. Only a thought; I'm sure that Africa has actually proved far more fertile in uncovering Who episodes over the last 20 years. It is theoretically possible that a person with missing episodes in another country could have come to North America with that collection. I was in college when The Tomb of the Cybermen was returned in late 1991. We had access to computers on campus to see what was in the university film and videotape archive. I checked on the computer and no Doctor Who episodes were there at the college I was attending. What you need is a list of web addresses for each university archive, if they have one. A search using the titles of the missing episodes will let you know if they have anything. Even though UCLA had some lost programming in there archive that wasn't Doctor Who, this is still a long shot. You can give it a try, but don't get your hopes up.
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Post by George D on Dec 15, 2011 23:43:22 GMT
As an American, I can chime in that even though we only got dr who in the 1970s, we never got Hartwell or Troughton until the mid 80s (after the dreaded destruction) What we got in the mid 70s were some Jon Pertwee color episodes. Somewhere I had an old syndication guide and if I remember correctly I think time life syndicated them as umatic video tapes. A few people recorded some off air on beta-max around 1977-8 however all Pertwees exist although a couple only in b/w so its not as serious. In the late 70s early 80s the major syndicated package was edited tom bakers with narration by Henry DeSilva.I remember them being aired on WOR and many felt that the prints were not enjoyable due to the editing, introductions, and narrations. It was not the same experience and again, all bakers exist so we're not concerned.
In the late 80s early 90s I ran movie collectible shows in the USA. it was very hard to attract the film dealers as they were a small cliquish group. The publication they used to advertise in was called the big reel which was a monthly tabloid newspaper full of ads. At the time, i would h ave been very excited if I found someone with a dr who episode on film but i did not. Once I remember seeing someone trying to sell a print of a non Dr Who show that Hartnell appeared in for over 100 if i remember correctly, (80s money) but the point is that they knew who Hartnell was and that's why the print wasn't an obscure 15-30.00 b/w tv show.
As video gained in popularity and even more so with the arrival of dvds and blue rays, only the diehards and the old timers still collect film.
If one wants to research whats out there, i would suggest getting an old copy of the big real(I think the publication has stopped producing because or lack of demand) and calling the various dealers /collectors who advertised. If someone is serious, i could try to get the names of some people I think would be friendly to talking to someone. But my gut is that most of what they will have is films from USA TV that was meant for the USA skips which were rescued and sold on the secondary market. There could be a needle in the haystack, but dont get your hopes up. as the print would have had to have originated in another country and sent to the USA.
Now I do know a radio collector who went to the USA (B Hill) and brought an enormous collection of british radio shows with him that he and his group had been preserving off air. While he has since past on, there are rumors where this collection has ended up which is a completely different story. But when i talked to him in the early 90s about contacts which might Dr Who videos, he kinda snubbed me off implying video was beneath him and the real art was radio.
One thing to keep in mind about the USA, that while there was no dr who in the 1960s and little in the 70s, by the early 80s Dr Who was BIG. It was the big money raiser for most pbs stations. The SF conventions had who guests as well as Dr who fan club members working as security and attempting to sell club membership, etc. Local british import stores had dr who magazines, etc. so there was interest in the missing episodes.
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Post by John Fleming on Dec 16, 2011 9:46:29 GMT
Top of the Pops was not shown in the US but several missing episodes are believed to exist in private collections there. No reason why Dr Who shouldn't either then.
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Post by Richard Marple on Dec 19, 2011 18:20:36 GMT
I know some off-air recordings of the Pertwee eposides only existing in B&W have turned up in the USA.
It's possible that some others might be in private collections.
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Post by Ewan Montague on Dec 19, 2011 18:30:21 GMT
It may seem like barrel scrapingnd it is, but when the barrel's empty that's all you can do, go for it I say and good luck.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Dec 19, 2011 18:32:18 GMT
Top of the Pops was not shown in the US but several missing episodes are believed to exist in private collections there. Is that the BBC Television version or the 1960s radio version that was made for and distributed in the US?
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Post by John Fleming on Dec 19, 2011 23:19:25 GMT
Top of the Pops was not shown in the US but several missing episodes are believed to exist in private collections there. Is that the BBC Television version or the 1960s radio version that was made for and distributed in the US? The BBC TV version. I thought I had some details about which shows are rumoured to exist in the States but I can't find them. I'll have a rummage through my TOTP documents and see if I can find anything, in the meantime I'm sure Pete Seaton would be able to provide this information. Likewise TOTP 13/07/73, the show was never broadcast in Germany but this edition is believed to exist there.
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Post by Steven Sigel on Dec 20, 2011 5:52:41 GMT
If we're talking about Dr. Who, there were only a handful of episodes with 35mm prints (only made for delayed broadcast on BBC1 I believe) and probably only one print of each, so the chances of any surviving outside of the BBC are slim to none..... There were far more 16mm prints made (for foreign sales) - so if there's anything else out there, it's almost certainly 16mm...
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Post by dennywilson on Dec 21, 2011 2:48:03 GMT
As an American, I can chime in that even though we only got dr who in the 1970s, we never got Hartwell or Troughton until the mid 80s (after the dreaded destruction) What we got in the mid 70s were some Jon Pertwee color episodes. Somewhere I had an old syndication guide and if I remember correctly I think time life syndicated them as umatic video tapes. Nope they were syndicated on 2" Video Tape.
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Post by Richard Marple on Dec 21, 2011 13:08:14 GMT
Even Hi Band Umatic would have lost a lot of quality IIRC.
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Post by Gary Robinson on Jan 3, 2012 18:24:58 GMT
I remember reading years ago that the laboratories where the prints were made would be checked out for any negatives was this ever done?
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Post by John Green on Jan 3, 2012 18:57:16 GMT
I remember getting conned by yet another April Fool's joke,this time in the Comic Book Price Guide magazine,where someone had the missing episodes 'for trade'. The radio collection sounds like just the thing I've been wondering about. As you suggest,these old-timers had specific interests,but savvy. I knew a guy who was into Country music,formed a band,amassed a big collection of original 78s,then transfered them onto cassettes. It's true that 'fan' is derived from 'fanatic' but the vast majority of fans will watch a newly discovered Dad's Army,but only the fanatic (in a good sense) lies awake thinking about discovering one,and spends a large part of his day looking. The old timers (or their widows) can have lots of goodies.Even the items they had as possible trades (i.e. not in their own field) can be of interest. It seemed that many of the most interesting finds of 2011 were pre-Who.John Ford silent movies,1950s BBC plays.Granted these were from institutions,it still leads me to hope that the missing Whos might feed through. How to contact the fanatics is another matter.As has been indicated,combing through old magazines,when these people were more actively collecting,sounds like a useful route.
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