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Post by felixdembinski on Dec 10, 2010 22:26:04 GMT
I have been hearing alot from hear and there about this missing episode of MENACE, which start Sarah Sutton who would later play Nyssa in Dr Who. But I dont actually know what happens in it, can anyone fill me in?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2010 10:48:22 GMT
I don't remember it myself and so can't help, i'm afraid. It's amazing though that Menace is only ever mentioned with reference to that particular episode (good though it may well have been) whereas the series as a whole is missing. From the two surviving ones though, it seems like it was a strong series. Probably better than the more often talked-about (but more predictable) Thriller, in fact.
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Post by Alan Turrell on Dec 11, 2010 11:51:55 GMT
Talking about Thriller Laurence, i'd personally like to see the Boris Karloff Thriller series ,i think their out on dvd in the u.s but not yet over here ,something i'd like to watch on a cold winter's evening.
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 12, 2010 16:52:14 GMT
I have been hearing alot from hear and there about this missing episode of MENACE, which start Sarah Sutton who would later play Nyssa in Dr Who. But I dont actually know what happens in it, can anyone fill me in? Hi Felix - Was repeated as BOYS AND GIRLS COME OUT TO PLAY single play 1974. Sarah is a precocious 12 yr old who always cries wolf. She takes some pep pills given her by a friend at school and sees ghosts of Victorian kids playing ring a ring a rose outside her window. Later visions entice her to gang up and kill another girl. They dump the body in a cement mixer. When a Police Sargeant hears the rumour he believes it and investigates and the body is actually found before it can be buried in the planned motorway.
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 12, 2010 21:20:39 GMT
Hi Felix - managed to dig out this clipping from an old RT I found at a comic fair in the 90s. I think this is the original projected billing for the broadcast but it was then postponed. Either the show before over ran or maybe it was deemed not in good taste to show it after a similar story in the News? Originally I think it was play 11 in a series of 12. They then broadcast it a couple of weeks later saying 'postponed from original planned date'. There was a second still which showed the Character of Belinda gathered together in a dim hallway dresed in their School uniforms holding a hangmans noose. The play was then repeated in April 1974 as a one off play. The Trailer showed the scene I think this still leads to. According to TIMESCREEN seem to recall Belindas imagination was caught by the tune 'Boys and Girls come out to play' in a musical box on the Dresser of one of the familys rooms. A friend recalled another girl had come in to her school boasting of being able to get hold of 'any kind of pills they wanted'. Whilst under the influence of the pills the seeming innocent Belinda then hears children singing through her window after the lights had been turned out. The Trailer showed the switch to film stock as she slightly leans her head to one side enchanted by a group of Victorian children visualised in the street below. This was seen from the childrens point of view as they ar eseen at street level skipping. There was a boy with a hoop and stick and flat cap and breeches. The modern street is replaced by cobbles and a Victorian lamp at the side. Belindas point of view looking down is seen then as the children sit down and disappear from the cobbles before the whole vision returns to reality. It was the same friend recalling the 'pills' scene who recalled the cement mixer scene. For this I recalled a mechanical Digger which has a girls dark long hair dangling from it as it rises up. (Probably achieved easily by use of a wig). There's debate as to whether the girls victim was yet to be buried; (seen in the mixer); or exhumed from the recently installed road surface. It was a typical 1970s flyover; somewhere like Harrow, with rows of suburban type houses a short distance beyond on one side. This was typical of the depressing 1970s Urban scenery seen in MENACE. I would say that the premise of this episode is quite shocking; and a result of the permissive period; even a few years after they would probably not pass a script like that. The series also carried the outline that 'in each play in the series a central Character or Characters is menaced by some kind of threat. The threat can be physical or form their own minds'. It was the same team that did ITVs 'CRANE' albeit with Jordan Lawrence in the role of Producer. If Belinda resembles a blueprint for ALICE IN WONDERLAND this is no surprise as writer James McTaggart also did the BBCs adaption of that in the same peiod as well as WEDNESDAY PLAY - ALICE. It was the same director as ADAMA ADAMANT 'BLACK ECHO' (probably the best one). There was one geunine supernatural entry the series really being very tense and downbeat thriller stories. The NFA seemed to raise the possibilty like DEAD OF NIGHT 'THE EXORCISM' the repeat may not have been wiped but misplaced as they put it on their wants list several years back. There was another thread on this if you use the search facility but I thought regulars might find the additional details and still of interest. Attachments:
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 16, 2010 16:28:06 GMT
Should add the second still is one of Belinda and the friends standing assembled in a hall way with one carrying the noose. I'll see if I can find that one.
The boy with the hoop; sort of Sherlock Holmes style; jacket with cloth fat buttons; and the children linking hands and dancing in a circle. Belinda gives a curious sigh leaning on her elbow as she peers out of the upstairs window. The Victorian lamp post left of screen.
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 16, 2010 16:35:54 GMT
I don't remember it myself and so can't help, i'm afraid. It's amazing though that Menace is only ever mentioned with reference to that particular episode (good though it may well have been) whereas the series as a whole is missing. From the two surviving ones though, it seems like it was a strong series. Probably better than the more often talked-about (but more predictable) Thriller, in fact. I think the main reason people recall only this from MENACE is it was given its own title and repeated later as a one off play; and to all observations it seemed a supenatural play and was offbeat. Most of the plays were human dramas, either a conventional crime play which would be treated with gritty approach to violence; or talky monologue type things. I recall DELIVER US FROM EVIL was like this; John Gielgud as a retiring Rector who interviews a new applicant to the post, but seems pushed and haunted to the point of madness at the horrors he has seen in WWI also doubting his faith. The plays were a formidable task often lasting nearly an hour and a half. The first series ran on arty BBC2 in a graveyeard slot around 9.50. Most people on a weekday were watching something more commercial on ITV or the news on BBC 1. Series 2 was also short and though on BBC1 was hardly commercial. MENACE seemed unashamed to tackle any subjects; the Mary Bell type child upon child murder; a Psychopath taking a blind woman hostage; the identifying and bringing to justice of a child molester by an angry father (John Thaw); and maybe was considered too intense and tasteless for the times it was made in. Yet being a patent product of the permissive era.
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Post by felixdembinski on Dec 20, 2010 22:58:56 GMT
Does anyone know what happened in any other episodes of menace, I've been researching it as best I can but cant find much, and it looks like such a good series.
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Post by johnstewart on Dec 23, 2010 18:22:50 GMT
If you check in a main library that has RT holdings there's an edition around October 1970 (don't know which). This has a centre page spread article on the new series.
It catches producer Jordan lawrence as he oversees KILLING TIME which he says he feel is one of the strongest epsiodes being made. The episode reunites the stage team from years before of George Cole and Annette Crosbie. The RT issue for it carried a still of Crosbie standing amongst Auton like shop window dummies in a darkened room.
This play was I think No. 3 in the series. It commenced with THE STRAIGHT AND THE NARROW (c. Oct 1970) and the RT still showed Freddie Jones in the background whilst a strange hag like old woman raises a meat cleaver to a pretty young woman. Jones plays a quietly spoken countryman who proposes marriage to the young girl. When she accepts his invitation to dinner she meets his disturbing Mother. When she finds the clothes of a previous female guest she wonders if it was wise to accept the offer.
GOOD MORNING YESTERDAY! (No 2) was a pilot for BBC series about Private eye 'The view from Daniel Pike' (?) reinvestigating a 20 yr old unsolved Murder. It featured filming in the Gorbals of Glasgow. The series probably was similar.
Play 3 I think was THE INNOCENT - This play was typical of a THRILLER episode with a city girl arriving in a country village where they don't like strangers.
Haven't time today but others included 'NINE BEAN ROWS' by Hugh Whitemore. In this a single woman brings home a new friend played by Charles Gray. The son is an ex mercenary and a bit of a lunatic who has swords and weapons on the walls and takes unkindly to the new guest.
I did not watch this first series as it was on around 9.50 on BBC2 on a weekday when I was 10. I did however see series 2. It started in February I think 1973 and I was at Secondary School by then. It had bigger publicity. I recall using shots inside a Church in a thunderstorm for DELIVER US FROM EVIL with John Gielgud as a disturbed Rector. Hugh Whitemore also wrote this.
First play of that series was JUDAS GOAT starring William Gaunt and a host of regulars.
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Post by felixdembinski on Dec 29, 2010 23:28:30 GMT
do any clips, visual or audio, exist for any of this series?
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Post by felixdembinski on Dec 31, 2010 23:40:54 GMT
were any of these repeated?
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Post by johnstewart on Jan 2, 2011 20:24:51 GMT
I don't remember it myself and so can't help, i'm afraid. It's amazing though that Menace is only ever mentioned with reference to that particular episode (good though it may well have been) whereas the series as a whole is missing. From the two surviving ones though, it seems like it was a strong series. Probably better than the more often talked-about (but more predictable) Thriller, in fact. I think the main reason people recall only this from MENACE is it was given its own title and repeated later as a one off play; and to all observations it seemed a supenatural play and was offbeat. Most of the plays were human dramas, either a conventional crime play which would be treated with gritty approach to violence; or talky monologue type things. I recall DELIVER US FROM EVIL was like this; John Gielgud as a retiring Rector who interviews a new applicant to the post, but seems pushed and haunted to the point of madness at the horrors he has seen in WWI also doubting his faith. The plays were a formidable task often lasting nearly an hour and a half. The first series ran on arty BBC2 in a graveyeard slot around 9.50. Most people on a weekday were watching something more commercial on ITV or the news on BBC 1. Series 2 was also short and though on BBC1 was hardly commercial. MENACE seemed unashamed to tackle any subjects; the Mary Bell type child upon child murder; a Psychopath taking a blind woman hostage; the identifying and bringing to justice of a child molester by an angry father (John Thaw); and maybe was considered too intense and tasteless for the times it was made in. Yet being a patent product of the permissive era. More on this - Happy new year! The scenes I recall from DELIVER US FROM EVIL. - John Gielgud inside the Cathedral like interior of a small Church by night. He is talking to himself seeming tense. As I recall he has a Vicars collar with black tunic covered by a white adorned Frock and flowing skirt like undergarment. He walks from the right of screen, distant to the left into a close wide angle shot of his face. He seems contemplative rather than manic. There are periodic claps of thunder and lightning flashes through the arched Church windows. This was by Hugh Whitemore who also wrote KILLING TIME; one of the surviving plays. The other shot I recall from the end or possibly the start was of a younger man with black hair in sort of 'Witchfinder General'; black frock garment. A wide brimmed black Rectors hat with a round headpiece. This was an external shot with the figure either leaving or arriving hastily, holding his hat on, soaked by the rain. The side wall of the Church with small window seen behind him. He walks across the screen from one side to the other and then a different shot of him opening a small wooden gate into the Church (or vice versa). According to THE MAUSOLEUM CLUB FORUM; this was based on the true story of a Mad Vicar of Warleggan who drove the congregation away and kept the new applicant for his position as a Prisoner. You can read more on this thread: 'BBC TVs MENACE (1970 - 73)'. Do a search on this on MAUSOLEUM; you don't have to be a member. The play on the child molestor was called TOM. It was a touchy subject really to make a TV play about and there are aspects that definitely would not be done now. I recall that a girl about 9 was taken to a Police Station after allegations a man had touched her in an inappropriate manner. I think the Father was played by John Thaw; who goes on his own vendetta to trace the culprit. recall a scene on film as he goes into a pub by afternoon. He is elminating each person in the town it could be; one of these is a sterotypical 1970s middle aged homosexual. He may have been played by Aubrey Morris (?) I'm thinking of the Actor who played MISTER ZED in the 1971 ITV series 'JAMIE'; (in turn played by Garry Miller) . The man was dressed in a black nylon sweater with 'colourful' seventies silk neckscarf (albeit seen in B+W). Possibly a velvet suit jacket seen sitting at the bar right of screen looking off screen. Thaw came in through the door with old style glass window (saying 'SALOON BAR' or whatever). The gay man is drinking a sherry or glass of wine. Thaw assumes a pressurising stance. 'Come on, what do you know about this' sort of thing. Later the girl was seen sitting on a bench in a 'Z CARS' type white reception room of a police station. I think a WPC was asking her questions about what happened; did the man touch her. She nodded and when asked where indicated a line pointing to the genital area. At the end it transpires a simpleton; played by either the Actor who played Dennis' Dad in PLEASE SIR or Actor Duncan Lamont commited the offence. They ask what he did; he says he helped the girl onto her bicycle. The enquiring Officer asks him to show how he moved his hands and he holds both hands up as if moving someone along. 'Were your hands over or under the girls clothing?' The man declines the question looking down. 'Over or under?'. 'Under..' he admits, bowing his head. Then he looks up perspiring saying 'I can't help it!!' in pathetic pleading voice before being led away. In todays climate they would not allow the demeaning portrayal either of people with special needs or gay individuals; but even at that time I felt the subject tasteless and disturbing for a TV show. The first play in that 1973 series was called JUDAS GOAT. I recall the title disturbed me; I think it referred to one who turns away to whom blame is laid; a sort of scapegoat. I have the front page of the RT for that one; the feature inside shows location shots behind the scenes but not actual moments from it. CHAMPIONS' Wiliam Gaunt plays an Executive in search of company promotion. The exercise chosen is not a board interview; but a mysterious mission whereby all applicants are sent to a remote Scottish Mansion for a desk briefing. The men are mainly middle aged. The Official explains that he feels that the ideal applicant for the post will not just be someone who is fit of mind; but someone who can prove they are resilient also against the greatest tests of psychological and physical threat. They are to undergo a series of outward bound tests in the wildeerness, and the man for the job will be proven in a 'survival of the fittest'. The scene in RT shows an assembly of all time TV regulars including some of the cast of 'SOFTLY SOFTLY' in front of a cliff. For at least two of the tests they are dressed in mountaineering helmets. I recall that the contestants were ruthless against each other to win. In the cliff climbing exercise; one man slips and is not strong enough to hold onto the cliff edge and plummets screaming out of view to the partys shock. As the play moves on Gaunts Character realises some of the men are cheating against each other; deliberating trying to make others lose grip and perish. This happens in a scene where they have to edge with hands and feet along a rope across cold rapid waters. A man like Actor Michael Gambon I think; or someone overweight is struggling and the others are content to leave him behind pleading for help. Gaunt does what is right; the hero of the piece and intervenes pulling him to safety. At the plays end I think either Gaunt is offered the post having shown he was not a cut throat; the quality the Senior Officer did not want. Or it was declared none of them had won; it was simply to satisfy the Seniors sadistic desire to watch them suffer. Can't remember! I may have mixed it up. I seem to think that Gaunt turns the post down though having seen so much terrible suffering in the wake of self empowerment.
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Post by johnstewart on Jan 2, 2011 20:44:07 GMT
do any clips, visual or audio, exist for any of this series? Not known apart from KILLING TIME as mentioned; and MAN WITH A MISSION (tx 10.11.70). The first of these is the 'psycholigical thriller' type menace. The second the other type mainly seen which were gritty 'Special Branch' type crime chase type pieces (not as commercial though). Clips of series 1 titles and MAN WITH A MISSION were shown on BEST OF BRITISH - 'GEORGE COLE' a BBC series c. 1999; and also TELLY ADDICTS c. 1991. There may be some bits on YouTube. Man with a mission concerns a special agent; MI5 style assigned to assasinate a would be Dictator from the West Indies, Luskaker. Robert Lang (OOTU 'DEATHDAY'); plays the agent. As I understand he has been briefed and possibly psycholgically conditioned with brainwash techniques to pursue and kill at all costs. The agency dispatch him then receive a Governmental brief that the situation has changed and the assasination is to be called off; but Langs Character is already off on mission. A special squad is then sent to take him out before he succeeds; but his training and conditioning make him an extremely slippery target. Like most MENACE the play has a downbeat twist ending. KILLING TIME has George Cole as an apparently gentle and quiet company Senior who lives a quite boring and humdrum Loners life as an upstairs bedsitter in a familys very old fashioned house. Under the apparent strain of the boredom of his daily life he suddenly goes on a berserk rampage slaughtering them all. A disturbance in childhood is later implied as the root of his mental illness. The play is quite a shock for those used to seeing Cole in a comfortable comedic role. Its probably a finer performance even than Rediffussions 1967 - 8 series ' A MAN OF OUR TIMES'. Where the plays did not contain physicallly gratuitous horror they contained psychological horror and most in this play relates to Coles mental disposition. As you will guess the series was NOT a horror series as the title and titles might imply. It was a pre empt of the later 'Murder mystery suspense' type TV thriller series. In the RT special colour feature; Producer Jordan Lawrence professes to be an Afficianado of Hitchcock and wants to imitate some of his great suspense work with these TV plays. Unlike Hitchcock there was no comedy in MENACE; it had the sadistic prolonged torturing of its Characters seen in much of Hitchcocks films. My Niece at the time also noted apart from the titles; it had no music; like the film 'THE BIRDS'. Long periods of tense silence in rooms when someone might suddenly jump out at you, that sort of thing.
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Post by johnstewart on Jan 2, 2011 20:56:19 GMT
were any of these repeated? Yes as said BOYS AND GIRLS COME OUT TO PLAY; on 8.2.74. According to the trailer I recall and the RT for the time the play was presented as if a new individual play i.e. not 'MENACE'. This was shown on BBC1 but apparently other repeats preceded it on BBC2 and I seem to have missed those. They were THE HAUNTING (Tues 8.1.74); JUDAS GOAT (Wed 16.1.74). The repeats switched to BBC1 with THE SOLARIUM on 1.3.74. These were all entries from the 1973 series. Most of the 1970 series was repeated around July - August 1972; I think on BBC1. These were probably quite late and I had not quite reached secondary school age then which is probably why I missed anything that would run past 10 0' Clock shown midweek. I believe theres a thread on MENACE - THE HAUNTING over on MAUSOLEUM. It may be the play I recall a last scene from. A Vicar has moved with his Daughter and wife into an echoey old rectory with arched doorways and stone floors. Apparently it was the ghost of a Nun who later was seen falling to the floor in a forecourt and fading into a skeleton; (sounds like UFO 'THE LONG SLEEP'). I didn;t recall that but in the scene I recall the Vicar turns to put an arm round the shoulder of the Wife and Daughter saying 'it's all over'. The Ghost was exorcised. But then I recall you heard a door slam and saw a close up of the shocked face of the Vicar anticipating the implied happening of the haunting all over again. It was probably the only genuine Supernatural entry.
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Post by johnstewart on Jan 2, 2011 21:12:32 GMT
There's also an episode synopsis guide over on ACTION TV if it's still there: www.action-tv.org/uk/guides/menace.htmOther info - BOYS AND GIRLS was rescheduled from 10.5.73 to 31.5.73 on original transmission. Apparently due to a mining disaster at Seaforth Colliery, Fyfe causing the 9. 0 clock news to be extended. THE SOLARIUM was set in 'a creepy old Victorian house' - with a solarium on the roof 'a place of unspeakable evil'. There's a scene from one of two plays not sure which in the 1973 series I remember. It could either be PICK UP in which a Librarial lloking type man, Mangham takes over the house of a man who had made many enemies. In the play he hears sounds and becomes paranoid there are hidden stealth operations by those intending harm against him. Or it could be THE SITTING TENANT. In this I seem to recall and escaped convict on the run persuades a blind woman on a housing estate to trust and allow him entry to her flat. Or he may have been on the run from someon else. I think this is the play as the man pursued was thin in his thirties, with balding hais and slim ('Mangham' in stills has glasses and is fat; a Peter Ustinov type). I think he eventually takes her hostage with a gun to prevent the Police apprehending him. I recall a pursuit down a concrete alleyway; in my minds eye by a car park. He may have hijacked a lorry and is pelting down it. It has a wodden fence to the right; behind which lies a Council housing estate (not high rise, the red brick type). He stops having come to safety; as he realises he has escaped, he throws up out of anxiety. This was handled by him taking a breath; then leaning with his hands on his kness standing with his head out of shot and sound imlpying him vomiting. This was towards the fence. A boy at Secondary school the next day said that a shot was then shown of vomit running or dripping through a crack in the fence; but probably the product of a vivid adolescent imagination! It's likely he takes cover inb the estate after this. I also recall a shot of someone kicking and smashing bottles of milk on a doorstep accidentally. Then there was blood seen running and mixing with the spilled milk. But I think that may be from another series at the time?
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