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Post by Kev Mulrenan on Feb 25, 2010 12:15:48 GMT
I've found in the past that things are included which are known to be wiped (such as LWT's Simon Dee Show, of which many episodes are detailed). It's a bit like the BFI's database, which is also a mix of what survives and what was made (although maybe not as bad in that respect). I would like to know myself if any of those Piccadilly Palace shows that are listed do actually exist (let alone in colour). The contents make you drool. If Chris Perry is reading, do you know the answer to this one, Chris? The Small Faces appearances exist so maybe some of the others do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 13:41:52 GMT
Is it in b/w or colour, Kev?
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Post by Kev Mulrenan on Feb 25, 2010 18:22:03 GMT
Is it in b/w or colour, Kev? b/w but the quality is such I am sure they could colourise it easily enough. I think the Surprise Partie footage of them is colourised. There is a great colour still in Paulo Hewitt's SF book of the performance.
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Post by Kev Mulrenan on Feb 25, 2010 18:39:35 GMT
Here's one version of the clip. Better ones are out there!
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Post by Richard Moore on Feb 25, 2010 22:23:35 GMT
From what I understand Piccadilly Palace fits into two categorys
1. Those with Morecambe and Wise - shown in B&W here under another title (Morecambe and Wise show probably) - These all exist in B&W, however i've never found out if any US colour editions do.
2. Those shown both here (in B&W) and in the US (Colour) as Piccadilly Palace and do not feature Morecambe and Wise. - These (according to ITN Source and Lost Shows) do not exist in any form - unless any export copies are hiding in US archives, but heaven knows where you would start with that one!
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Post by Tom Alger on Feb 26, 2010 3:54:53 GMT
Although I've been a frequent visitor to this forum, this is the first time I've posted here. Regarding the ITN Source description, I was a bit suspicious at first. The song titles and comedy info are exactly what I posted on tv.com several years ago. www.tv.com/piccadilly-palace/show/30520/summary.htmlIt seemed strange that ITN Source didn't have anything "new" to add. Then I realized that ITN Source is a Stock Footage company. Since their purpose is to lease footage, I can't see them listing a show that's been wiped. So there's a good chance that color copies of the series have survived!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 10:46:50 GMT
The problem is though that they DO list things which have definitely been wiped (such as the LWT Simon Dee shows, as I mentioned). I don't know what possible use it is to them to do this but I suppose it's like that because - for quickness - the data posted on ITN Source was copied directly from individual programme companies files (which were just listings of what was made, rather than what was in the archives - I am guessing here though). At a rough guess from my browsing, I would think that the majority of things listed there survive but not all. Has anyone else from their own experience found large amounts of programming on ITN Source to be things which are definitely known not to exist?
Piccadilly Palace was screened in the U.S. by ABC (?), I think. Chris Perry mentioned this series on a thread recently with regard to the Kinks appearance and that Kal's own research had found that particular edition to not reside in the archive there (ABC?). Does that apply to the whole colour run though, Chris? Whatever, I am assuming that all the episodes exist (in b/w) as the Morecambe & Wise versions though. Is this correct?
One first point of contact to start looking for the colour versions might be UCLA as their archive has been found to hold some missing U.K. TV items in the past and still holds material that copies of which still haven't been returned to this country (e.g. the colour VT version of Rediffusion's Dial M For Murder from 1967). I presume though that it's been checked that the obvious company to approach first in the U.S. - ABC - did not retain copies of something which to them was just a bought-in show?
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Post by Peter Stirling on Feb 26, 2010 16:15:59 GMT
Is it in b/w or colour, Kev? b/w but the quality is such I am sure they could colourise it easily enough. I think the Surprise Partie footage of them is colourised. There is a great colour still in Paulo Hewitt's SF book of the performance. That is false colour Kevin, ie somebody with a paint box colouring each frame individually with what colours they think fit.-It looks false,rubbish and is obviously very labour intensive.. Colour recovery looks for the colour coding in a B/W copy and reproduces the natural colour- so far it only works on PAL recordings and depends on whoever filmed the telerecording had not switched off the colour information. Piccadily Palace was probably filmed in NTSC?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 16:22:30 GMT
Yes and I think that it's been stated quite a lot that ITV t/rs all have the colour information switched off. So sadly that isn't an avenue that could be explored (not that I can imagine anyone that isn't the Dr.Who restoration team making the effort to colour recover programmes anyway).
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Post by Richard Moore on Feb 26, 2010 17:43:02 GMT
Looking at the ITN Source listings I get the idea that the Piccadilly Palace contained more material than the Morecambe and Wise shows - almost as though they took a half hour M&W show and added extra guests etc to fill up the hour.
I contacted ITN source with a view to getting a viewing copy of a particular P.Palace last year they did go and look for me but found nothing (This was a non M&W episode)
Richard
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Post by Tom Alger on Mar 1, 2010 2:35:55 GMT
One first point of contact to start looking for the colour versions might be UCLA as their archive has been found to hold some missing U.K. TV items in the past and still holds material that copies of which still haven't been returned to this country (e.g. the colour VT version of Rediffusion's Dial M For Murder from 1967). Here's the link for UCLA's database: cinema.library.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=FirstI couldn't find "Piccadilly Palace" in their database. Maybe someone else will have better luck. If anyone's interested, I've attached a scan of the TV Guide listing for the Manfred Mann episode. Attachments:
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Post by John Green on Jun 13, 2012 23:09:58 GMT
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Post by Christopher Perry on Jun 14, 2012 6:24:56 GMT
The three shows made as Piccadilly Palace are all wiped according to our info.
Episode 1 Written by Dick Hills Written by Sid Green with Millicent Martin, Bruce Forsyth, Dudley Moore, Topol, Ann Hamilton, Sheila Bernette, Alan Curtis, Jenny Lee-Wright, The Lionel Blair Dancers, The Mike Sammes Singers, The Jack Parnell Orchestra and The Dudley Moore Trio Music directed by Jack Parnell Music directed by Peter Knight Music directed by Gareth Davies Designed by Brian Bartholomew Designed by Richard Lake Produced by Colin Clews Directed by Philip Casson Directed by Bill Hitchcock An ATV production. Originally transmitted 21.01.1968
Episode 2 Written by Sid Green Written by Dick Hills with Millicent Martin, Bruce Forsyth, Matt Monro, Sheila Bernette, Christine Pockett, Joseph Wise, Eddie Mulloy, Barney Galbraith, The Paddy Stone Dancers and Jack Parnell and his Orchestra Designed by Peter Roden Designed by Bill McPherson Produced by Colin Clews Directed by Colin Clews Directed by Philip Casson An ATV production. Originally transmitted 11.02.1968
Episode 3 Written by Sid Green Written by Dick Hills with Millicent Martin, Bruce Forsyth, Sheila Bernette, Colin Keyes, Frank Ifield, Alan Curtis, Barney Galbraith, Claire Davenport, Children from the Corona Stage School, Mike Briton, John Cassar, The Lionel Blair Dancers, The Mike Sammes Singers and The Jack Parnell Orchestra Orchestra conducted by Jack Parnell Orchestra conducted by Peter Knight Designed by Richard Lake Designed by Brian Bartholomew Produced by Colin Clews Directed by Philip Casson Directed by Bill Hitchcock An ATV production. Originally transmitted 03.03.1968
The final Morecambe and Wise series, sometimes listed as P Palace - these exist as telerecordings in bw: Episode 1 Written by Sid Green Written by Dick Hills Hosts Morecambe and Wise with Millicent Martin, Freddie and the Dreamers, Jimmie Rogers, Kirby's Flying Ballet, The Paddy Stone Dancers, The Michael Sammes Singers and Jack Parnell and his Orchestra Choreography by Paddy Stone Produced by Colin Clews Directed by Colin Clews Directed by Philip Casson Designed by Peter Roden Designed by Bill McPherson An ATV production. Originally transmitted 01.10.1967
Episode 2 Written by Sid Green Written by Dick Hills Hosts Morecambe and Wise with Millicent Martin, The Small Faces, Bobby Rydell, Jill Curzon, Valerie Van Ost, Jenny Lee-Wright, The Paddy Stone Dancers and Jack Parnell and his Orchestra Choreography by Paddy Stone Produced by Colin Clews Directed by Colin Clews Directed by Philip Casson Designed by Peter Roden Designed by Bill McPherson An ATV production. Originally transmitted 22.10.1967
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Post by Simon Winters on Jun 14, 2012 10:57:56 GMT
A large section of at least one episode of Piccadilly Palace exists on transferred off-air CV2000 tapes recovered from an elderly lady living in Brighton some years back. I think Paul Vanesis found these tapes.
A large amount of Rediffusion continuity survives on these recordings - she was picking up London TV in Brighton very clearly, as was possible on VHF.
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Post by Simon Winters on Jun 14, 2012 12:43:31 GMT
Just remembered, it's the Frank Ifield episode of Piccadilly Palace which survives (incomplete) on this old lady's CV2000 tapes.
She was a wealthy Frank Ifield fan and home recorded as many of his shows as she could in 1966-69. Her CV2000 recordings went into the Thames TV era.
Simon
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