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Post by Thomas Walsh on Feb 19, 2010 4:39:55 GMT
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Post by Alan Turrell on Feb 19, 2010 5:26:27 GMT
What more can i say Thomas absolutely brilliant alright it might be just the audio but its still another find and another step in the right direction.
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Steve Flower
Member
Love Finding Things That Are Lost!
Posts: 44
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Post by Steve Flower on Feb 19, 2010 9:40:01 GMT
Returning to a thread we had on here a couple of months ago, is it just me, or does the Small Faces audio just posted synch up perfectly with the footage of Small Faces performing Tin Soldier, on a screen behind Tom Jones? More so than the actual released single version did!! Could this really be a Top Of The Pops performance? What do you guys think? www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQBYqIf27owww.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz3MYhCWZDA
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Post by Alan Turrell on Feb 19, 2010 17:43:45 GMT
Really good point Steven i've spent hours looking at that clip and i'm none the wiser it could well be the audio that matches the clip .One thing i am certain of i have never seen this small faces clip anywhere else.
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Post by Bob Savage (robstar) on Feb 19, 2010 22:26:39 GMT
Can someone in the know or has contacts with who ever owns the rights to Beat Beat BEAT see if there archive can shed any light on the Small Faces footage? Was there top Of The Pops clips supplied to German TV
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2010 23:17:22 GMT
Beat Beat Beat was live performances so it wouldn't have used TOTP clips, i'm pretty sure.
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Post by chrisstratton on Feb 26, 2010 19:47:32 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 0:50:26 GMT
I've been doing a little personal investigation into The Hollies' "Bus Stop" clip.
It was pointed out to me that the original mono audio (the clip linked directly above has been dubbed into stereo) had an ALTERNATE vocal part later on in the song. I decided to look carefully into this. I put the audio into Sound Forge and then, in a separate channel directly beside it, I synched up the original 1966 mono Parlophone single master. This required a very slight pitch bend for it to fit perfectly.
The audio matched perfectly until 2 minutes and 22 seconds in. There is a very sudden but brief difference that jumps out in the vocals! I then checked the 2 stereo mixes that exist of this song, the original stereo mix done back in 1968 and Ron Furmaneks' remix done in the early 90's. Neither yielded any differences in the vocal. So what is going on in the TOTP audio?
A careful listen to that brief moment reveals a slight edit. It instantly follows a change of scene. But if one pays attention, one can hear a faint "ghost" vocal underneath, suggesting that the audio was recorded direct onto the film and this is a cut they got slightly out of synch since one had to cut the audio track on film something like 16 frames after the picture frame and here is an example of this where they slightly got the audio cut wrong when they edited the film. This suggests to me that the theory my friend offered is correct - it was shot on 16mm film, and edited together shot by shot. The visuals back this up since most of the cuts are "dirty." Looking at it frame by frame in VirtualDub also proves it. Back then electronic camera cuts always had one "dirty" frame featuring half of the preceding and forthcoming image split diagonally across the screen. No such frames can be seen in this. This was NOT shot on VT or using electronic cameras - there is no line structure to be seen like one can see on telerecordings.
So this was edited together from more than one "performance" on 16mm film.
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Post by markboulton on Mar 13, 2010 20:12:20 GMT
Here's a link to a version with the original audio (unsurprisingly in fairly poor quality): www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXKBUPEGcGABTW I don't agree about the cameras. It's DEFINITELY shot on TV cameras. But as with many Doctor Who episodes and other shows of the era, telerecorded direct to film and edited in that domain. But not filmed with film cameras. No doubt about that. The 60s video artefacts - ringing, crushing etc. are all there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2010 17:13:34 GMT
BTW I don't agree about the cameras. It's DEFINITELY shot on TV cameras. But as with many Doctor Who episodes and other shows of the era, telerecorded direct to film and edited in that domain. But not filmed with film cameras. No doubt about that. The 60s video artefacts - ringing, crushing etc. are all there. I still beg to differ! I find it hard to believe the BBC would had had all their cameras aligned to get those extreme close ups of each member at the start. Also if this was as most seem to think, a telerecording, then how come is there no "dirty frames" - when they cut from camera to camera back then, you got one dirty frame featuring half of the preceding image and half of the forthcoming? I've looked at every frame in VirtualDub and I see zero dirty frames. So, that convinces me that this was shot AND edited on 16mm.
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Post by jontravers on Apr 15, 2010 5:41:10 GMT
Not to urinate on anyone's bonfire...I've shown the "bus Stop" clip to an acquittance ho was active on US tv during the 1960's. He believes that this could have been recorded using either a a 2 or 3 camera setup, but would say for certain that "bus stop" had been recorded as as a TV broadcast.cuts are not as clean as you would expect if it were recorded directly onto film. His verdict after seeing this in relation to TOTP of similar vintage is that this was to be used on a future programme (other than 16/6/66)
He doesn't buy the jukebox theory as it does not have the polish of such a production ( to his memory stuff from the BBC, and TOTP in particular ties in well with US imports), as they were a limited market and filmed in a suburban setting. He knows TOTP of the 60's and would place a hefty wad on this being "an alternate for a future edition" He also told me that it would not be unusual for the BBC ( and to a lesser extent ITV companies, But usually Sir Lew) to provide showreels of clips with the option to buy.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Apr 22, 2020 15:39:53 GMT
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