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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Feb 17, 2010 9:00:40 GMT
What bugs me a lot with this - is my search for 'BoMar Scope' has proved entirely fruitless on the internet.
We all agree it's an insert of some sort. We all agree it's a good find.
At the moment, we have a guy who is saying 'I am the copyright holder', and he used to run a company I have never heard of and cannot trace. And I have never heard of the BBC letting their studios out in the 60's to a private company - let alone a probable American one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 10:15:18 GMT
Exactly, Ray. The clip looks like TOTP and is shot in that studio. There is no reason to suppose it isn't from that show. And as, in all the years i've been interested in missing / archive TV, i've never seen or heard a single reference to BoMar Scope or a company with any such practice, the onus is on someone to prove the clip is NOT TOTP!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 11:42:22 GMT
I'd like to thank all of you here who have been chasing this up. I simply shared information that was given in the hope we'd be able to get to the bottom of this but it now seems we could well have been fed a red herring by the guy claiming to be the copyright holder. I know many of you here know your film and TV history so it is telling we're no wiser as to the existence of BoMar and their Video jukeboxes. As each day passes the more it is evident that something doesn't quite add up.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Feb 17, 2010 12:54:22 GMT
Philip, we weren't getting at you. Well aware that you were passing on info, and anything that might help is always welcome. Trouble is, a lot of red herrings get thrown. This may well be one.
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Post by markjhaley on Feb 17, 2010 13:51:18 GMT
I suppose it's possible that somebody involved in the production of the show had a little ... ahem... sideline going.
In which case I suspect the BBC would justifiably claim they are the copyright holders as the performance is clearly filmed in their studio, almost certainly with their cameras and probably on their film.
By the looks of it the Hollies had been in the studio and were asked to film another performance for use in a later edition when the record was higher up the charts.
The first time I saw any kind of video jukebox anywhere in the world was in the early 80s when they started showing up in pubs. I would be pleasantly surprised if any such thing existed in 1966.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 14:09:44 GMT
Philip, we weren't getting at you. Well aware that you were passing on info, and anything that might help is always welcome. Trouble is, a lot of red herrings get thrown. This may well be one. No, I wasn't suggesting anybody getting at me at all! I was simply doing my duty, passing on information for further investigation since I thought the story though not unfeasible, needed looking into so this is the place to share such information. I have enormous respect for everyone here chasing it up since I'm just as curious as to where it came from, how it survived, and just what else might be out there. All avenues of research need to be plundered and though we seem to be being thrown some red herrings in this case, it is now cementing the belief that this is likely a standard TOTP insert after all. It is also bringing up interesting questions as to how and why TOTP performances were exported, so all the while we're gaining new knowledge.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Feb 17, 2010 14:30:12 GMT
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Post by Oliver Roemer on Feb 17, 2010 15:19:06 GMT
Yepp Ray, I was going to say the same. These films in their jukeboxes were very popular during the 60's, especially in France. A french pay TV station, "Melody", still shows quite a lot of them in their programme today, but most of them are by french artists.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Feb 17, 2010 16:27:24 GMT
There were quite a few by ost rock'n'roll pre-Beatles US pop stars. There also exists film of Nancy Sinatra and Procol Harum.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Feb 17, 2010 16:28:00 GMT
#'post rock'n'roll', typo, sorry....
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Post by James C on Feb 17, 2010 16:59:54 GMT
Im probaby wrong on this but could the clip be some kind of pre show rehearsal or run through?
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Post by Bob Savage (robstar) on Feb 18, 2010 2:54:08 GMT
Without wishing to fan any fires on here, there is actually a precedent set for foreign tv companies recording in BBC TV centre around 67/68 and this is the French footage of The Hollies on Colour Me Pop being recorded performing Listen To Me. Personally i believe Bus Stop to be an insert but this is very much a grey area until written records prove one way or the other! The written records seem to not be entirely reliable though as they don't list clip sales pre 1970 so.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Feb 18, 2010 12:39:09 GMT
A contact of mine has looked at literally hundreds of BBC Artists Contracts files and not once did he either find a reference to BoMar Scope. And he also finds it inconceivable that the BBC would just allow some other company to wander in and, with the aid of their staff and facilities, film the artists which they had booked and PAID for.
Also, if this firm did indeed come in, when exactly would they have shot this clip? Bands / artists were booked to appear in just camera rehearsals / run-throughs and then the performance for broadcast. One of The Kinks once said, "We went there, done our stuff, then f###d off." So, the question remains, when did this firm film these clips? There certainly wouldn't have been any free time on the day of the recording / broadcast.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2010 12:59:34 GMT
No, I wasn't suggesting anybody getting at me at all! I was simply doing my duty, passing on information for further investigation since I thought the story though not unfeasible, needed looking into so this is the place to share such information. It is also bringing up interesting questions as to how and why TOTP performances were exported, so all the while we're gaining new knowledge. Yes, thanks for passing the info on to us, Phillip. We can usually arrive at the truth eventually by discussing it all here! As Mark Haley says, it is always possible that someone was doing a little bit of "moonlighting" on the side at the time. But what seems to be the likeliest explanation for this item to me (given the dead start / end etc.) is that it was an insert shot for future inclusion while The Hollies were in the TOTP studio on 16/6/66 but subsequently untransmited due to (e.g.) the record going down the charts. The first time I saw any kind of video jukebox anywhere in the world was in the early 80s when they started showing up in pubs. I would be pleasantly surprised if any such thing existed in 1966. They were definitely around then, Mark, as I saw one myself in 1964 or 65! See my comments (and those of other posters) on page one of the "Pop Acts Missing From The Archives" thread for more details. It's here: missingepisodes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=totp&action=display&thread=5064&page=1
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Post by markjhaley on Feb 18, 2010 15:09:03 GMT
I'm pleasantly surprised Oddly enough, I met Gary Puckett back in 1986 in the States and asked him why they hadn't come over to the UK to promote 'Young Girl'. He replied "we shot a Scopitone that was shown over there in the movies". For years I've mistakenly presumed a 'Scopitone' was a little pop film shown in cinemas ! (Perhaps they were ?) I had no idea it was actually a machine that played clips like a juke box. And Ray, that would be Mick Avory who said "We went there, done our stuff, then f###d off". Definitely... .
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