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Post by Archive on Dec 4, 2017 5:25:43 GMT
How does one purchase an archive if its non-profit? how is that funded?, and since the material would be copyrighted how does such a non profit group plan to recoup those costs or do anything with the material legally?
Isn't the buying and selling of copyrighted material technically illegal?
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Post by Mike Biggs on Dec 4, 2017 5:50:05 GMT
How does one purchase an archive if its non-profit? how is that funded?, and since the material would be copyrighted how does such a non profit group plan to recoup those costs or do anything with the material legally? Isn't the buying and selling of copyrighted material technically illegal? Buying and selling of copyrighted material is perfectly legal, so long as the item in question was legally obtained in the first place (i.e. not an illegal copy/pirated version).
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Post by Archive on Dec 4, 2017 6:21:50 GMT
In my experience that generally only applies to commercially released material, not master copies or "archives", we are also not talking about an individual here but an organisation that appears to be presenting as both non-profit and profit venture.
The other question still remains, how would a non profit organisation have a model to buy and sell archive material, or afford to purchase "an archive" they can't do anything legally with. I'm just curious as to how that would be viable as once buying and selling comes into it, its no longer a non-profit venture and other legalities come into play.
Purchasing materials opens a can of worms, since if one starts purchasing copies of archival material, it sets a precedent/example where then scavengers/collectors of archive material then not only demand but expect as a given that they will be paid (often demanding substantial amounts) for lost material.
Kaliedescope has approached us previously asking to "buy" any UK material "they" are seeking - this is not how archives work, they do not buy and sell material.!
Its also a myth that copyright holders/broadcasters will pay large sums to have material returned - they don't for a very good reason! - imagine how much tighter security would need to be with archives if there was such incentive to smuggle a tape home and sell it back for large amounts when it was found to be missing?
If your wanting to preserve footage, buying and selling only has a reverse effect where material is sat on as the holder/s inevitable value their items as such large amounts (and will never get it) and the material inevitably gets lost or destroyed down the track.
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Post by mikejones on Dec 4, 2017 16:13:04 GMT
I'll asked again won't Henson legally be allowed to get copies as there the copyright holders?
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Post by Rob Moss on Dec 4, 2017 16:22:43 GMT
I'll asked again won't Henson legally be allowed to get copies as there the copyright holders? Kaleidoscope have always offered copies of their finds to the copyright holders, free of charge.
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Post by mikejones on Dec 4, 2017 20:41:50 GMT
I'll asked again won't Henson legally be allowed to get copies as there the copyright holders? Kaleidoscope have always offered copies of their finds to the copyright holders, free of charge. Maybe there give us DVD release some of the stuff.
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Post by Mike Biggs on Dec 5, 2017 4:46:52 GMT
I'll asked again won't Henson legally be allowed to get copies as there the copyright holders? Physical ownership is a completely separate matter to copyright. There is no law that says you have to provide a copy to the copyright holder if you happen to have legal ownership of something they created. But assuming Henson retained copyright, only they can grant permission for copies to be made (although limited exceptions do exist for archives and libraries in some countries).
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Post by edstradling on Dec 26, 2017 9:24:47 GMT
In my experience that generally only applies to commercially released material, not master copies or "archives", we are also not talking about an individual here but an organisation that appears to be presenting as both non-profit and profit venture. The other question still remains, how would a non profit organisation have a model to buy and sell archive material, or afford to purchase "an archive" they can't do anything legally with. I'm just curious as to how that would be viable as once buying and selling comes into it, its no longer a non-profit venture and other legalities come into play. Just because money changes hands that doesn't mean it's a profit making exercise. So I work in TV, and also manage a small TV archive. I have a small-medium sized VT machine room, so if a TV company, or anyone else (other than a friend), contacts me and asks for copies of my material (which happens occasionally) they will get charged my professional rate for dubbing off footage. However, I spend many hundreds, sometimes thousands of pounds a year on equipment, only a fraction of which is recouped in transfer fees. I also put in hundreds of unpaid hours. So I don't make a profit from my archive, I make a loss, at least directly. However, indirectly it could be argued that I have made money through my archive because I've earned producer commissions for several programmes which I would likely not have done, were it not for my archive activities. These things are rarely simple.
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Dec 27, 2017 17:09:11 GMT
Just because money changes hands that doesn't mean it's a profit making exercise. So I work in TV, and also manage a small TV archive. I have a small-medium sized VT machine room, so if a TV company, or anyone else (other than a friend), contacts me and asks for copies of my material (which happens occasionally) they will get charged my professional rate for dubbing off footage. However, I spend many hundreds, sometimes thousands of pounds a year on equipment, only a fraction of which is recouped in transfer fees. I also put in hundreds of unpaid hours. So I don't make a profit from my archive, I make a loss, at least directly. However, indirectly it could be argued that I have made money through my archive because I've earned producer commissions for several programmes which I would likely not have done, were it not for my archive activities. These things are rarely simple. In the UK, you can self designate as an archive. I have a small media archive. You are allowed to do certain things with material that you own which is not your copyright. You are allowed to make copies for preservation. You can't make copies for public display or trade unless you own the rights or unless you are requested to by the copyright holder or another body that has those rights (such as the BFI or an organisation acquiring/clearing those rights). However, you are not obliged to provide the content. You are also not obliged to provide information detailing what you hold in your archive. As for providing material "for free" to copyright holders or other rights holders, that is up to the owner of the archive. If your overheads are high, it is not unreasonable to charge for the service you offer, for example your time and the use of your equipment and other expenses, such as electricity and tape stock, wear and tear and so on. For the purposes of holding on to an archive, it is frankly meaningless to say that you offer the content you hold to the rights holder for free. That has no bearing on the conditions under which you are allowed to archive the content that you look after. Some material has been deemed by less informed people as 'orphaned', meaning that whilst copyright exists in the material, it cannot be enforced, for example, the John Cura telesnaps. There is no such thing as an orphaned work and the copyright in the John Cura telesnaps resides with the original broadcasters, something I established in 1998. So using the telesnaps in a published work without clearing it with the rights holder is a breach of the rights holders rights. Equally, reproducing content and distributing it on DVD without clearing it is very much a no no. It's not just the copyright which you would be breaching, but the third party rights and a DVD is republishing. The fees are high for music, scripts etc... Regards, Paul
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Post by Archive on Dec 28, 2017 3:35:54 GMT
Well said/explained edstradling and Paul Vanezis!
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Post by robkeeley on Aug 3, 2023 10:55:44 GMT
Just seen this: www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-missing-episodes-exist-exclusive-newsupdate/Everyone's engaged in wild speculation about the Doctor Who 'news' (certainly on Twitter) but what leapt out at me is the bit that says all the British Fraggle Rock episodes have been recovered. Does this refer to the VHS copies recovered from Victor Pemberton's collection and others, or has a huge hoard of broadcast-quality copies turned up? Really hoping it's the latter! Thanks
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Post by George D on Aug 5, 2023 3:20:05 GMT
Alex, who was the local fraggle expert appears to have disappeared.
I hope he's ok.
I think it's talking about the Pemberton, but who knows?
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