Showtime ATV 1968

[Deleted]

Yes, you could well be right that Intertel provided the facilities for Rediffusion to record their colour productions. They were nearby. Anyone out there who knows more?

[Peter Elliott]

I was under the impression that InterTel probably provided the facilities for the early colour VT efforts before the BBC began using their own colour facilities in 1967. The Beatles certainly used the colour VT unit in May 1966 for the studio promos of Paperback Writer and Rain, which were filmed at Abbey Road alongside black and white versions. So InterTel were certainly getting custom and travelling around London. I'm willing to bet Rediffusion may well had hired their facilities. I also wonder if ATV used them as well to film those colour Palladium shows.

Actually speaking of those Beatles colour VT clips, it's hard to tell whether they were shot on PAL or NTSC. The clips were screened on American TV in colour, so surely it would had made sense for them to shoot them on NTSC for ease of use and bypass the conversion that would had been required had it been shot on PAL. Does anybody actually know for sure which format was used?

The 10 clips they shot near the end of 1965 were all black and white which makes one wonder - considering how the clips were sold all over the world and USTV was mostly colour by then - if InterTel had the colour equipment at that time or not. So maybe they acquired colour between November 1965 and May 1966.

The InterTel story is an interesting one that requires further investigation and clarification.

[Phil Leach]

Intertell had colour by March 1966 because they did the 'pilot' colour Sunday Night at the London Palladium. The one with Roy Orbison that still exists.

[Peter Elliott]

Oct 28, 2008 12:23:02 GMT Phil Leach said:

Intertell had colour by March 1966 because they did the 'pilot' colour Sunday Night at the London Palladium. The one with Roy Orbison that still exists.

I'd forgotten the date of that show! So I guess that's the earliest British colour VT material. They certainly had teething problems on that one with the cameras getting overheated and resulting in some strange colour imbalances. Interesting to know InterTel did that one. I do get the feeling they were finding their feet with that taping given how new the technology would had been.

[Deleted]

The Paperback Writer / Rain colour VT clips were shot in NTSC / 525 line, as they were specifically made for The Ed Sullivan Show (the other b/w clips shot on that day were 405 line but transferred to t/r for some overseas sales). The ones i'm uncertain about are the Hey Jude / Revolution clips as although they presumably were made on 625 line by 1968, there's still a slight smeariness to the pristine versions that makes me wonder.

Incidentally, that colour Palladium show was apparently shot in 405 line colour! This makes it an oddity but they must have still been unsure as to what exact permutation the industry was going to settle on.

I'd be interested to know if colour VTs of Rediffusion's Hippodrome Show still reside in the states (a couple exist as b/w t/rs here); be great to see them in all their glory, particularly as they contain some interesting pop groups as guests.

[Peter Elliott]

Thanks for confirming The Beatles 1966 VT clips were NTSC. I had guessed that was probably the case since the UK was still a year away from colour TV so would had made economical sense for the US market.

Good point about the 1968 promos... they certainly do look smeary and I get the impression they were again probably NTSC. However, the David Frost intro does look a bit clearer and given that it was broadcast in the UK as 625 line b+w, maybe they shot one version in PAL and the others on NTSC?

That Palladium show certainly is an oddity being a 405 line colour shoot. For all it's technical problems with the taping, it is good it has survived and makes an intriguing little piece of British TV history... even though it was aimed at the American market. I do find it amusing how they swiftly dropped Jimmy Tarbuck in favour of American guest hosts for the remaining colour productions... heaven knows what the Americans thought of him doing a production number of The Kink's then latest record, never mind the jokes and references to Alf Ramsay which give it a very British feel. The Americans wouldn't had had a clue who Ramsay was given their lack of interest in football at the time.

[Deleted]

I wonder if the other Palladium colour editions are still out there somewhere?

[Peter Stirling]

Oct 28, 2008 12:56:40 GMT Peter Elliott said:

Oct 28, 2008 12:23:02 GMT Phil Leach said:

Intertell had colour by March 1966 because they did the 'pilot' colour Sunday Night at the London Palladium. The one with Roy Orbison that still exists.

I'd forgotten the date of that show! So I guess that's the earliest British colour VT material. They certainly had teething problems on that one with the cameras getting overheated and resulting in some strange colour imbalances. Interesting to know InterTel did that one. I do get the feeling they were finding their feet with that taping given how new the technology would had been.

The cameras used on that one were relatively very old Marconis, Intertel had used them on the winter olympics of 1964 for American TV, but had originally bought them from the medical company Glaxo or Beecham (IIRC)who had been using them for closed circuit medical operations.

The Roy Orbison LP show was certainly not made for American TV......think about it for a minute ....in those days what the hell would Americans have made of Jimmy Tarbuck and his accent?
but being on 405 lines it could be sent straight out on the network.

Ironically at the end of that same March the UK decided on the PAL system. Lew Grade had wanted colour as quickly as possible,
if it had been left to him there would have been 405line NTSC in about 1963.While ABC were more in favour of 625 Secam.

In 1965 Philips invented the 'plumbicon' television camera tube, this was to revolutionise b/w and colour television pictures, amongst other things, no more black halos around bright objects and reliable stable pictures.

ATV bought a set of these new lightweight cameras with the plumbicon tube in (The Philips PC60) in the summer of 1966 .They used them to interview the world cup champions at Wembley and the colour season2 LP shows .
It would be interesting to know how long Intertel soldiered on after with their old banger cameras ?With intense light and regular recording breaks for maintainance the old Marconis were still capable of very good pictures.

Where you get smeary pictures its often the sign of a 'video' telerecording IE a 625 line camera watching a 525 line monitor.
For years the only format seemed to be doing the rounds of the Frost /Beatle show was a 16mm colour film recording , yet the master appears to have turned up for the 1995 Beatle anthology?

..

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[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2008 0:19:11 GMT Peter Stirling said:

Where you get smeary pictures its often the sign of a 'video' telerecording IE a 625 line camera watching a 525 line monitor.
For years the only format seemed to be doing the rounds of the Frost /Beatle show was a 16mm colour film recording , yet the master appears to have turned up for the 1995 Beatle anthology?

Thanks for the info, Peter. What I was saying though was that, while the VT masters of Hey Jude / Revolution were finally dug out for the Anthology series (after years of having to suffer poor colour t/rs of the same), the video originals do seem to exhibit some smeariness, which makes me wonder if these were also shot on 525 line like the earlier Paperback Writer / Rain colour clips were (even though it was now 1968 and 625 PAL colour was up and running on BBC-2 and ITV were already experimenting with programmes recorded in this format for impending switchover)?

[Peter Elliott]

Thank you too Peter for your most interesting and informative post. Deeply appreciated.

Like Laurence I'm also wondering about the 1968 Beatles clips. They certainly do display traits we see on NTSC 525 line. Again, it wouldn't surprise me... I believe it was The Smothers Brothers who got the exclusives on those in the US. Also again, several clips were shot... 2 for Revolution and 3 for Jude. Same director as 1966, Michael Lindsay Hogg. Was great to see them from VT source on Anthology after years of awful looking t/r's.

Incidentally I saw the VT version of Cream's Farewell Concert last night which brought the Beatles films to mind since until then I'd only seen the ugly looking t/r versions. Though I'm glad that was filmed and has survived, just a pity about Tony Palmer's direction. You can actually hear The Beatles themselves talking about the first broadcast of it on one of the first days of the "Let It Be" sessions. Paul also criticised Hogg's direction of the Jude clips, pointing out that they had hired an orchestra and yet not once do we get a close up since as Macca alleged, Hogg spent far too much time focussing on the kids in the studio!