|
Post by richardwoods on Apr 16, 2021 11:16:39 GMT
Ah, TV on Medium Wave. I remember my father telling me how you could hear the broadcasts on a standard AM Wireless.
|
|
|
Post by Kelvin Walker on Apr 16, 2021 11:44:35 GMT
1947 Rugby: Cardiff v France 1947 Veterans Match at Cardiff Arms Park (logged on 1/1/47 but real tx date unknown) Rugby: Cardiff v Nantes/Cognac (f/r (?) – logged on 1/1/47 but tx date unknown) I think I've spotted a bit of a trend here for who the BBC thought their target audience was. Strange that they also broadcast a rugby union match in colour a year before any other sport when England played New Zealand at Twickenham in 1967. The whole match was transmitted in black and white on BBC1, however 45 minutes highlights was broadcasted on BBC2 in Rugby Special in colour...
|
|
|
Post by Dan S on Apr 16, 2021 14:58:57 GMT
I believe that sound and vision couldn't be transmitted at the same time, so one went first (probably vision) with the other (sound) following - I wonder if there were any complaints about repeats! Are you sure? It'd be useless listening to them seperately. It gives two different frequencies, 356.3m vision, 261.3m sound. From looking at that I'd have assumed that you'd watch the pictures on your tv set (tuned to 356.3m) while simultaneously tuning a radio to 261.3m. That reminds me of the time when I was a kid, we had a b&w tv until the mid 70's, and one time after we'd had the tv repair man out to repair the colour one which was always having faults he'd forgot to reconnect something so the picture was now fixed but there was no sound! I saved the day be suggesting we could plug in an old b&w portable that we had and have the picture from one set and the sound from the other, so we could watch tv that evening.
|
|
|
Post by Robert Clark (rcgreybeard) on Apr 16, 2021 16:17:48 GMT
I'm sure I had read it somewhere, but I must have mis-remembered as checking A Concise History of British Television (by Tony Currie) and available from radiotimesbacknumbers.com:
"Early in 1930, the BBC introduced its revolutionary National and Regional scheme for radio, which meant that they now had more medium wave transmitters at their disposal. Reluctantly, half an hour a day on both the London and Midland Regional wavelengths was handed over to Baird, and so what we might today consider the first television programmes, with synchronised sound and vision, were first shown at the end of March 1930."
|
|
|
Post by richardwoods on Apr 16, 2021 17:50:55 GMT
I think I've spotted a bit of a trend here for who the BBC thought their target audience was. Strange that they also broadcast a rugby union match in colour a year before any other sport when England played New Zealand at Twickenham in 1967. The whole match was transmitted in black and white on BBC1, however 45 minutes highlights was broadcasted on BBC2 in Rugby Special in colour... Does it exist in its entirety or truncated form in either colour or monochrome?
|
|
|
Post by richardwoods on Apr 16, 2021 17:51:53 GMT
I believe that sound and vision couldn't be transmitted at the same time, so one went first (probably vision) with the other (sound) following - I wonder if there were any complaints about repeats! Are you sure? It'd be useless listening to them seperately. It gives two different frequencies, 356.3m vision, 261.3m sound. From looking at that I'd have assumed that you'd watch the pictures on your tv set (tuned to 356.3m) while simultaneously tuning a radio to 261.3m. That reminds me of the time when I was a kid, we had a b&w tv until the mid 70's, and one time after we'd had the tv repair man out to repair the colour one which was always having faults he'd forgot to reconnect something so the picture was now fixed but there was no sound! I saved the day be suggesting we could plug in an old b&w portable that we had and have the picture from one set and the sound from the other, so we could watch tv that evening. That’s exactly right
|
|
|
Post by Kelvin Walker on Apr 17, 2021 12:44:48 GMT
The whole match was transmitted in black and white on BBC1, however 45 minutes highlights was broadcasted on BBC2 in Rugby Special in colour... Does it exist in its entirety or truncated form in either colour or monochrome? Here are 25 minutes of the match presented by Keith Macklin... www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9YWERR196M
|
|
|
Post by richardwoods on Apr 17, 2021 14:07:54 GMT
Does it exist in its entirety or truncated form in either colour or monochrome? Here are 25 minutes of the match presented by Keith Macklin... www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9YWERR196MThanks
|
|
|
Post by markjhaley on Apr 17, 2021 15:46:47 GMT
I think I've spotted a bit of a trend here for who the BBC thought their target audience was. Strange that they also broadcast a rugby union match in colour a year before any other sport when England played New Zealand at Twickenham in 1967. [/quote] Am I the only one amused that the BBC's first televised sport in colour was between a team playing in black against a team playing in white..?
|
|
|
Post by richardwoods on Apr 17, 2021 16:51:02 GMT
After watching the highlights or should I say lowlights, unsurprisingly it was another dismal performance by England.
With the exception of the famous wins away against New Zealand & South Africa and the one home win against Wales in in the 70’s they were uniformly dreadful from the late 60’s until 79 due to hopeless selection, lack of training as a team & general underperformance in all areas.
Not a good time to be a fan and all the more shocking as England has the highest number of rugby teams & players of any country & in the 70’s had some of the best forwards in the game.
|
|
|
Post by Kelvin Walker on Apr 17, 2021 18:54:02 GMT
Wimbledon 1967 presented by David Vine was the 1st sport transmitted in colour on BBC2, ALSO BBC2 intended to show 1967 FA Charity Shield Manchester United vs Tottenham Hotspur as the first ever broadcast of football in colour at 10:00-10:45pm billed as Association Football NOT Match of the Day. Sadly something went wrong and the programme had to go out in black & white. In his autobiography "Under Auntie's Skirts", MOTD producer Alec Weeks describes how he got a call during half time to explain that engineers could see the feed in colour but for some reason the VT machine could not record it in colour, he recalls that the wife of the Manchester United chairman had organised a party at her house that night to watch the historic transmission on specially rented colour TV sets and she ended up berating him and the BBC for ruining her evening. He also mentions having to cancel a press reception to watch the colour highlights. Of course the match was famous for Pat Jennings goal and Bobby Charlton's 25 yard left foot volley @ The Stretford End.
|
|
|
Post by Peter Stirling on Apr 17, 2021 19:03:29 GMT
I think I've spotted a bit of a trend here for who the BBC thought their target audience was. . Anyone for tennis LOL
|
|
|
Post by T Morgan on Apr 20, 2021 17:29:53 GMT
What were the demonstration films used for? Were they actually broadcast on BBC TV? That didn't seem clear from the BBC History pages. What do you mean by "off tube" - telerecordings? Not sure what the difference is between filmed material and the "off tube" stuff. They were broadcast in the daytime, so that people installing sets had something to tune them into - I'm not sure exactly at what times or how often, though. In the 1946 one, they even comment to the installers that they will come to know every moment of the film off by heart. Yes, when I say "off tube" I mean something actually filmed from the screen as it was going out, so what the viewer would have seen of a live transmission. (As opposed to the pre-filmed items like the demo films and newsreels). The only two that are - as far as I know - known to exist from the 1930s are very bad-quality mute footage of a few minutes shot off-screen on cine film at RCA in New York when they received the Alexandra Palace transmissions due to freak weather conditions, and a similarly mute short snippet of the 1937 coronation: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04d7h0x(This version on the BBC website has had some audio dubbed onto it). Incidentally, that latter one is probably the single example from the 1930s where we *can* compare the angles of the live TV broadcast with the BBC's own filmed coverage, whose camera was just behind the live camera: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04d7bywAh, I see. Thanks for clarifying. Well, I suppose the demonstration films do count as original BBC TV programming which has survived from the 1930s, but where did the segments come from? Are they original archive clips from broadcast material, or were they filmed by the BBC newsreel cameras? 'Newsreel' cameras suggests the footage was intended to be used in cinemas, perhaps, like Movietone et al? So I wonder if any of the material in the demonstration films was from an original broadcast. Maybe the footage was filmed specifically with the intention of use for newsreels and/or demonstration films? What I'm getting at is whether there is any TV footage from the 1930s which survives as originally broadcast. If it was filmed by another camera, that wouldn't be exactly the same as the footage intended for use on a TV broadcast. Whether the BBC were filming any of its programming output at the time is a pertinent question. If so, maybe that material could have been used as inserts. I have a feeling that the 1946 demonstration film was like a variety programme made especially for that purpose, ie. not a selection of inserts from other (supposedly?) broadcast programmes. I've just watched Television Comes to London. Is that the only complete demonstration film which survives? You can see another camera on Adele Dixon in one shot, presumably the television camera. She's being watched on screen elsewhere - in the BBC control room? There's another shot of Dixon's performance without any cameras visible, but I expect this is a close-up by the newsreel cameras.
|
|
|
Post by T Morgan on Apr 20, 2021 17:44:45 GMT
The earlier Pearson TV appearance in Genome is Cabaret from 1937. However, Radio Times didn't carry any TV listings before 1934, so it's likely their earlier appearances aren't catalogued, unless they're detailed in the Baird archives. Not quite true - this is a random entry from 1932: genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/page/0000dc1695f747259c6704b59bf50ab9It was still experimental at this time, and it wasn't the only experimental service to be transmitted either. The service proper (i.e. non-experimental) started on the 22nd August 1932. I believe that sound and vision couldn't be transmitted at the same time, so one went first (probably vision) with the other (sound) following - I wonder if there were any complaints about repeats! There is a book being published later this year by Kaleidoscope, written by Andrew Martin (not sure if the link will work unless you are a member of the KAL fb group: www.facebook.com/groups/kaleidoscopearchive/permalink/10161104661515198). The cover states 1929-1939 and although it is mainly Ally Pally, it does say "(and from some other places)" so may include the early Baird stuff. That Genome entry is a good find, thanks. I did of course mean that "the earliest Pearson TV appearance in Genome is Cabaret from 1937". What exactly happened with sound and vision being broadcast separately? Sounds like it wasn't simultaneous, but apparently the BBC were able to do it from March 1930. I can't imagine a musical double act like the Pearsons being broadcast with no sound. From the interview with Tony Bridgewater, it appears that they couldn't broadcast sound and vision at the same time because only one transmitter was available. So some images were shown, then sound on the experimental TV? Presumably the TV had a blank screen when the sound part was broadcast. I tried that link, but I'm not on FB, so it didn't open for me.
|
|
|
Post by T Morgan on Apr 20, 2021 17:46:01 GMT
Ah, TV on Medium Wave. I remember my father telling me how you could hear the broadcasts on a standard AM Wireless. He must have been around a fairly long time ago? Would that have been in the early 1930s?
|
|