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Post by John Green on Dec 24, 2012 18:11:47 GMT
AJ,as if I didn't realise it was you! Well,actually,I didn't but then again I'm sometimes fighting with the kids for five minutes on the WWW. There seem to be several other people who think that Idle Race had more telly,but of course they could all be quoting each other!
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Post by Thomas Walsh on Dec 25, 2012 0:02:26 GMT
Plenty of local Midlands telly I seem to remember, all well gone sadly. But sure if there's ZERO TV footage of a band who had a worldwide hit (The Honeybus) then there's little or no chance of seeing any 'Idle Race'. Plenty of f***ing DDDBM&T though??!! HAPPY CHRISTMAS..!!
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Post by Peter Prentice on Jan 1, 2013 15:18:26 GMT
Apologies for the delay. I've been laid low by a very heavy cold over Christmas which has taken the wind out of my sails. I was also hoping to report word from one of the members of our newly discovered mystery band. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if their appearance (as extras rather than as musical participants) might have been at the expense of Blossom Toes. It does have a certain air of plausibility.
No progress to report on the restoration of the Hong Kong materials and little prospect of there ever being any. The cost is simply way too prohibitive. I can't do anything with it, no one else is interested, and soon I won't have anywhere to store the umpteen boxes of Popdown and Free Life reels. I'm sitting on five boxes of Fred Marshall's sound tapes as it is. They're destined for the dustbin.
The problem is much as it was in 1969. Popdown has ZERO sales potential, even as stock footage. Yes, you might catch a fleeting glimpse of the Chelsea Potter or the Flying Dragon Tea House but that's about it. Forget any sweeping panoramas of the King's Road or Carnaby Street. The same goes for the participants. Kirsten Lindholm, one of only fourteen non-musical participants credited in "Musicorama-Popdown" (the 25-minute edit), is seen for less than one second, while Diane Keen, ostensible star of the film, appears for a grand total of 140 seconds.
The film proper, by which I mean the full-length 98 minute or 'erotic' version, received its World Premiere at the March 1969 II Festival Internacional do Filme in Rio de Janeiro. That version was never submitted to the BBFC so could therefore have never have been exhibited in public in Great Britain. It WAS screened in private, however, and may have been the version screened at the King's Road premiere (a private screening). Irrespective of any sexual content, no distributor was ever going to be interested in taking the film as a main feature, hence the decision to whittle it down to a more practicable 54 minutes.
By that stage (April 1970) Popdown's 10-minute follow-up "Chelsea Bird" was already in the can and "The Free Life" in preparation. Fred Marshall had established himself as a film director in his own head and was looking forwards not backwards. Which is probably what I should be doing.
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jan 1, 2013 16:00:02 GMT
I wouldn't be too hasty in terms of junking material. The sound tapes, in particular, could easily be digitised.
I think it might be worth recapping on what physical materials you have located from the film, where they are and whether you are 100% certain as to their content. It would also be helpful if you can outline what your anticipated restoration plan would entail.
It would then mean that the various members here could jump in and offer you advice from a more informed perspective. For example, I had been under the impression that the Hong Kong material was just 500ft of 35mm but it seems that there is more than that.
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Post by Peter Prentice on Jan 1, 2013 18:12:13 GMT
I wouldn't be too hasty in terms of junking material. The sound tapes, in particular, could easily be digitised. I think it might be worth recapping on what physical materials you have located from the film, where they are and whether you are 100% certain as to their content. It would also be helpful if you can outline what your anticipated restoration plan would entail. It would then mean that the various members here could jump in and offer you advice from a more informed perspective. For example, I had been under the impression that the Hong Kong material was just 500ft of 35mm but it seems that there is more than that. I've seen that figure of 500ft of 35mm quoted elsewhere, Ken. Someone has got their wires crossed. 500ft of 16mm excerpts were found initially but this was superceded a few months later by the discovery of a quantity of 35mm negative reels: www.myspace.com/406039636/photos/28762442#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A28762442%7DThe content of the 35mm negative reels is unknown. Though they were found in a box marked "Popdown 1970" they could just as easily be from "Chelsea Bird" or some Asian soft-porn or kung-fu flick. In October 2009, I was quoted a figure of £15,000 for the video mastering of material in reasonable condition and a figure of "easily £50,000+" to reconstruct a damaged film through laboratory processes. I see no reason to dispute those figures. No one is going to be interested in scraps of a film like Popdown at anything like those sums. Why would they be when the film has little or no value beyond a few minutes of (silent) pop footage? I wish it were otherwise but I have to be realistic. I would be content with the transfer of the 16mm excerpts. They contain the complete Rocky Allan & Cindy limbo party sequence missing from "Musicorama-Popdown" and provide many a glimpse of other missing sequences. I believe the digital transfer of the 16mm excerpts would cost something in the region of £1,000.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 19:35:09 GMT
Have you approached the BFI with a view to preserving the materials, Peter? Seems like a lot of work you've done just to simply dispose of the footage at this stage. They might be your best bet to saving the film until a time when it can be re-composited. They do archive obscure films, after all.
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Post by Peter Prentice on Jan 1, 2013 19:57:49 GMT
Have you approached the BFI with a view to preserving the materials, Peter? Seems like a lot of work you've done just to simply dispose of the footage at this stage. They might be your best bet to saving the film until a time when it can be re-composited. They do archive obscure films, after all. It was the BFI who quoted me the above figures, Laurence. They were willing to take the Hong Kong materials at the time but I turned them down when it became clear they were only interested in the release of "Musicorama-Popdown" as a bonus feature on one of their Flipside DVDs. The Hong Kong materials would never have seen the light of day. All this was rendered academic when I discovered Popdown was registered as a foreign film in 1970, much like "The Free Life", which the BFI had rightly considered "beyond their remit".
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jan 1, 2013 20:46:53 GMT
The content of the 35mm negative reels is unknown. Though they were found in a box marked "Popdown 1970" they could just as easily be from "Chelsea Bird" or some Asian soft-porn or kung-fu flick. In that case, my advice would be to get access to a 35mm Steenbeck and a trained operator. If you are careful, you can view the negative footage on that equipment and figure out roughly what's on the reels. Using that equipment, you should be able to separate the Pop Down material from any unrelated reels. There's no point proceeding with anything else until you have identified the elements you will be working with. I've encountered a couple of such situations in the past and that's how I have resolved them. In terms of country of origin, you should check where Pop Down was registered and approach that nation's film archive for assistance.
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Post by Peter Prentice on Jan 1, 2013 22:47:17 GMT
The content of the 35mm negative reels is unknown. Though they were found in a box marked "Popdown 1970" they could just as easily be from "Chelsea Bird" or some Asian soft-porn or kung-fu flick. In that case, my advice would be to get access to a 35mm Steenbeck and a trained operator. If you are careful, you can view the negative footage on that equipment and figure out roughly what's on the reels. Using that equipment, you should be able to separate the Pop Down material from any unrelated reels. There's no point proceeding with anything else until you have identified the elements you will be working with. I've encountered a couple of such situations in the past and that's how I have resolved them. In terms of country of origin, you should check where Pop Down was registered and approach that nation's film archive for assistance. The problem with that is the reels are likely to require some form of restoration before they get anywhere near a Steenbeck. Condition is a factor. No one knows where Popdown was registered. And if they did they wouldn't say. Fred Marshall's home planet would be my best guess.
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Post by Thomas Walsh on Jan 1, 2013 23:45:35 GMT
Don't mean to sound.....ehm.....mean but the only reason I felt that this brutal melange of self indulgence should ever have seen the light of day was the participation of The Idle Race as ZERO footage exists of this band as of now. Well done to all involved in such intense work in trying to unravel the sordid mess that is 'Pop Down' but it's time to put down pop down methinks.
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Post by Peter Prentice on Jan 2, 2013 10:34:12 GMT
Don't mean to sound.....ehm.....mean but the only reason I felt that this brutal melange of self indulgence should ever have seen the light of day was the participation of The Idle Race as ZERO footage exists of this band as of now. Well done to all involved in such intense work in trying to unravel the sordid mess that is 'Pop Down' but it's time to put down pop down methinks. Blimey, Thomas, what do you think went on in the Sixties? When John Lennon likened it to Rome before the fall he wasn't exaggerating. "Brutal melange of self indulgence". Fred would have loved that!
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jan 2, 2013 10:58:38 GMT
The problem with that is the reels are likely to require some form of restoration before they get anywhere near a Steenbeck. Condition is a factor. PM sent
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jan 2, 2013 11:23:13 GMT
Looks like the BFI are quoting from cloud cuckoo land? what you actually need is just a viewing copy of what you have on the reels.So don't bother about any restoration they might need at this stage, telecines and scanners are gentle compared to old projectors. You can get a quote from some where like this www.stanleysonline.co.uk/scategory-18.htm and as long as you keep mentioning you just want a straight run through without any grading etc onto a domestic format such as dvd or vhs that should get the costs right down. From you picture you look like you have about 5000ft. If you can keep the costs down further by keeping the images negative rather than positive then you can flip them positive in a computer programme later
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Post by Peter Prentice on Jan 2, 2013 12:32:10 GMT
Looks like the BFI are quoting from cloud cuckoo land? what you actually need is just a viewing copy of what you have on the reels.So don't bother about any restoration they might need at this stage, telecines and scanners are gentle compared to old projectors. You can get a quote from some where like this www.stanleysonline.co.uk/scategory-18.htm and as long as you keep mentioning you just want a straight run through without any grading etc onto a domestic format such as dvd or vhs that should get the costs right down. From you picture you look like you have about 5000ft. If you can keep the costs down further by keeping the images negative rather than positive then you can flip them positive in a computer programme later Whatever the price quoted, who is going to pay? Is there a charity I can apply to? A dirty raincoat collective, perhaps? I simply don't have the money and neither does anyone else.
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Post by Ken Griffin on Jan 2, 2013 15:18:01 GMT
If you can keep the costs down further by keeping the images negative rather than positive then you can flip them positive in a computer programme later Erm... if he is getting the film telecined, the operator will just have to flick a switch to turn negative into positive.
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