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Post by William Martin on Aug 15, 2007 14:58:03 GMT
The FIAT report states 5000-10000 boxes. I'm not sure if that means 5000-10000 prints. Would there be one print in one box? I would think that means 1 print per box; that does seem like quite a lot, what else could they be? cinema film prints perhaps?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2007 16:26:09 GMT
nope i think ther are proably several prints per box,
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Post by Greg H on Aug 15, 2007 17:16:07 GMT
I am inclined to entertain the possibility of that conclusion as well. 'A box' is an ambiguous term at best. And it said that many of the films are missing their proper cases, so maybe theres just a pile of 16mm in each box. Who knows. Hopefully we will find out before too long.
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Post by Bobby Clark (synthpopalooza) on Aug 15, 2007 17:37:40 GMT
Regarding the Smugglers: I have seen the recon, and I think the story is remarkable, in that here, for the first time, you see a change in the Doctor's demeanor towards getting invovled in the events of history. Whereas in "An Unearthly Child" he is quite willing to let a caveman die rather than help him, here, you have a scene where Ben does his best Jamie, saying "Let's to get back to the TARDIS and go", but the Doctor insists on staying and helping protect the villagers from the pirates. This is a departure from the norm for Hartnell, and is a harbinger of things to come in the Troughton era.
For a historical, I quite found it enjoyable, and hopefully Loose Cannon will do an update on this recon.
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Post by Greg H on Aug 16, 2007 10:06:26 GMT
Yea, it is definitely a portent for the Troughton era. Theres some pretty good performances in it as well, judging from the audio. It is possibly my favorite historical story, and the historicals are far from my favorite bit of Hartnell tbh, I find reign of terror a bit hard to get through some times, but the crusade and the romans are pretty cool.
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Post by Simon Exton on Aug 21, 2007 13:19:38 GMT
This is marvellous news and I hope something comes of it. Does anyone know what other missing material might be there, as well as any Dr Who episodes?
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Post by David Robinson on Aug 21, 2007 22:12:13 GMT
This is marvellous news and I hope something comes of it. Does anyone know what other missing material might be there, as well as any Dr Who episodes? Somehow I dont think anyone knows whats down there! Give them chance to look ;D
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Post by Greg H on Aug 21, 2007 23:21:35 GMT
Yep! Could be anything! Its worse than waiting for christmas when youre 8 (and santa might not turn up at all, lol)
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Post by B Thomas on Aug 22, 2007 10:01:25 GMT
nope i think ther are proably several prints per box, Why would you think that? 16mm film is usually stored - "off the reel" - in boxes or cans (usually plastic these days). What is not stated is that they may also be referring to camera loads when describing "film". Camera loads come in sealed packages in small cardboard boxes. Perhaps someone sent the news through without clarifying whether or not the film was exposed and processed...?
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 22, 2007 15:45:28 GMT
nope i think ther are proably several prints per box, Why would you think that? 16mm film is usually stored - "off the reel" - in boxes or cans (usually plastic these days). What is not stated is that they may also be referring to camera loads when describing "film". Camera loads come in sealed packages in small cardboard boxes. Perhaps someone sent the news through without clarifying whether or not the film was exposed and processed...? Again, here are the quotes we have describing the situation in Zambia. First, we have the National Archives of Zambia, where there are "lots of films are without boxes and labels ; there are no lists of documents" although it only has a "small collection of audiovisual documentssmall collection of audiovisual documents" -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++ The first day, we looked over a small collection of audiovisual documents in the National Archives of Zambia, which holds films, microfilms, video tapes and VHS cassettes. The demonstration of discovering vinegar syndrome by smelling the contents of boxes has especially impressed the audiovisual archivists. The preservation conditions of the audiovisual collection are very bad : the vault is inadequate, not air-conditioned ; films and microfilms are infected by vinegar sindrome ; lots of films are without boxes and labels ; there are no lists of documents, etc. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Then we have the ZNBC Archives... +++++++++++++++++++++++++ The second day, we visited the Radio and Television Archive of ZNBC, managed by Mr. Imanga Imakando. We were welcome by the General Manager and the Director of the Programme Department of ZNBC, who showed their interest in collaborating with FIAT/IFTA, and in the promotion of RTV archive work. Then we went around the Radio and TV archive.Our collegues in ZNBC work in extremely bad conditions : 16 mm film (around 5.000 to 10.000 boxes) : no inventory evidence, no catalogue ; films are often stored without boxes and labels. Most of it is infected by vinegar syndrome. ZNBC lacks a correct telecine equipment. There is one editing table for review of film material. We found it in faulty condition, one film rewinder - which as I have estimated - could be repaired at low costs. Video tapes (around 500 to 1.000 two inches tapes) : no inventory evidence ; the tapes are piled up on the floor. There is not one correct magnetoscope in ZNBC. Actual production formats are U-matic and Betacam SP. These cassettes are labelled, but not catalogued. For lack of money, the biggest part of the transmitted tapes are not archived. Shaken with such bad conditions, I asked the head of TV archive to prepare a report with accurate information, so that the Executive Council can decide how to organise help. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Again, it states, "16 mm film (around 5.000 to 10.000 boxes) : no inventory evidence, no catalogue ; films are often stored without boxes and labels." -- You wouldn't need an inventory or cagalogue or labels if the film was not used, it seems to me. It would just be 16mm film. I therefore get the impression the film is not unused film, but I can't say absolutely. It seems unlikely that an archive would be used to store huge amounts of unused film. And I still don't know what 'boxes' means here. If the film were off the reel, would that be one reel's worth of film in each box?
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 22, 2007 16:07:43 GMT
Branko Bubenik states:
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My recommendation that many useful things could be done without money was most welcome. I suggested that they should immediately start selecting and making the inventory of the audiovisual documents stored in vaults.
As a first step, the materials should be sorted into three stocks :
ZNBC production Foreign production Materials without data Then, audiovisual documents should be sorted by genre (drama, sport, news,etc.)
Then, they should make lists by genres and put on the signatures on audiovisual documents
The lists with registered audiovisual documents should be sent to the Training Commission, so that we can try to find someone to save valuable documents. One possible solution is that SABC (South African Broadcasting Corporation) in Johannesburg which is on higher technological level, becomes a regional rescuer of endangered materials. Surely, it's neccesary to find sponsors who will support this.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
I wonder if any such sorting of materials ever took place. I wonder if SABC ever got involved at all. The statement "it's neccesary to find sponsors who will support this" seems crucial here. Maybe nothing happened because there was no money to do anything.
Over 70 missing Doctor Who episodes were sent to Zambia, but Zambia was probably often in a list of nations that 'bicycled' prints around. If Zambia was at the end of a list to receive an episode, it may still be there. If Zambia got the episode earlier, it may have then been sent on to another nation in the region.
That's why I don't know if we can just focus on the 16mm archives at ZNBC or even this archives plus the Zambian National Archives. Those missing episodes were certainly shipped around Africa. Zambia is one place to look. Uganda is another. Ethiopia is another. Sierra Leone is another. Etc. Etc. The archive situation in other nations of that continent could be similarly chaotic. Nigeria seems a bit better organized, but that doesn't mean the place has been searched extremely well. Maybe some films were sent to South Africa or elsewhere?
The bigger picture is that across Africa (and in certain places in Africa in particular) the numbers of missing episodes sent there plus the general level of chaos in the archives over the years could be just the right conditions for missing 16mm prints of Doctor Who to exist somewhere, tossed in amongst whatever else.
It will be a big and somewhat expensive undertaking to do all the archive clean-up work that might yield up missing episodes of Doctor Who somewhere in Africa as a side effect. That's why I was wondering if fans could somehow donate to a fund to help clean up and organize audiovisual archives in Zambia or in Africa generally. Getting that kind of work done in Zambia and other countries might result in lost footage being returned to the BBC. I would only hope that there would be good communication on the matter so the funding wouldn't just go to the rental of a big truck to cart off all the damaged film prints to be buried.
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Post by LanceM on Aug 22, 2007 17:34:55 GMT
I had found this snippet of info after an archive preservation workshop was held in Africa, here is what they stated:
three large archives in South Africa have more than 30,000 film and video materials that include many unique pieces most of which are uncataloged, undescribed, unduplicated, unsecured, and resting in many cases in environments without preserving temperature and humidity controls.
more than 30,000 uncatalogued film reels, and video material, hope this archive search turns up some material. You would think in over 30,000 uncatalogued film items that one episode of Dr Who may lie there, only time will tell.
Lance.
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Post by Greg H on Aug 22, 2007 19:16:14 GMT
I have been suggesting for a while that if funding is required, there is a large ammount to be had from film enthusiasts and genre fans, but I havent seen much interest as yet from the relevant people
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Post by Doug Wulf on Aug 22, 2007 20:48:00 GMT
I had found this snippet of info after an archive preservation workshop was held in Africa, here is what they stated: three large archives in South Africa have more than 30,000 film and video materials that include many unique pieces most of which are uncataloged, undescribed, unduplicated, unsecured, and resting in many cases in environments without preserving temperature and humidity controls. more than 30,000 uncatalogued film reels, and video material, hope this archive search turns up some material. You would think in over 30,000 uncatalogued film items that one episode of Dr Who may lie there, only time will tell. Lance. Thanks Lance! There is a big problem with film preservation all over that continent. I found a description that seems similar to this for a television archive in Uganda. There are large collections of uncatalogued films just decaying away in many African nations. In theory, there could be prints of over 70 missing episodes of Doctor Who scattered here and there in such large uncatalogued collections. That is not to say that so many as that actually will be found. It just means that if extensive archive searches were somehow possible, perhaps done in conjunction with overall archive reoganizations, the chances of actually finding something of value seem reasonably high, all things considered. It would not even be impossible for complete serials to be located somewhere in a stack together, unexamined for decades, just turning into vinegar over time. FIAT is able to make it happen. I hope the funds can be found to empower that organization to act. That vinegar syndrome issue means that there should not be any further delay.
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Post by davidgareththrelfall on Aug 22, 2007 22:35:27 GMT
Does anyone know what Doctor Who Episodes were sold to
a) Sierra Leone b) Ethiopia c) Uganda d) South Africa e) Nigeria
Does anyone know where Fury from the Deep was sold to if at all. If all the missing episodes are found in Zambia then it will leave only 35 missing episodes with Daleks Masterplan/Mission to Unknown making up 10 of them and then 6 episodes each for Fury from the Deep, Power of the Daleks and Evil of the Daleks and 4 from Wheel in Space. Probably tempting providence to expect everything to turn up.
Where was the Tenth Planet sold to?
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