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Post by David Zientara on Jun 3, 2005 2:21:00 GMT
I've read some of the articles on the missing episodes, and apparently the canard that "Invasion Of The Dinosaurs" episode one was junked because it was mistaken for "The Invasion" episode one has been discredited. They did not explain, however, exactly why it was junked. Was there ever a specific reason given? If not, it leaves us with the default explanation:
1. Between 1972 and 1978, the BBC was in the process of junking old "Doctor Who" episodes as well as episodes of other BBC shows, and
2. Junking was conducted in a more or less random fashion.
A black-and-white print of episode one of "Dinosaurs" was recovered; however, at least in the States, when it was shown in omnibus (movie) format, most stations skipped past episode one. [This was the case when I last saw this serial on PBS back in 1988.] I can excuse this since episode one was more or less padding. What I don't understand is the handling of "Planet Of The Daleks". Having to deal with a six-parter in which part three was in black-and-white, most stations simply skipped past this episode (as well as several minutes of the second episode). If they were that concerned that the B&W footage wouldn't "flow" together well with the color footage, why didn't they just show the whole story in black-and-white? Did they really think that the average Doctor Who fan, who already had to suffer through the first two seasons of Pertwee in a variety of formats ("Spearhead" and "Inferno" in color, but "Silurians" and "Ambassadors" in black-and-white; in season eight, you get "Claws Of Axos" and "Colony In Space" in color, but "Terror of the Autons", "Mind Of Evil" and "The Daemons" in black-and-white) really cared whether they saw another story in B&W? It's not going to make or break your viewership ratings, to the extent that it even matters for PBS.
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Post by LanceM on Jun 3, 2005 4:58:10 GMT
Hello,
We as fans should be glad that episode one of Invasion of the Dinosaurs even exists at all for us to see and enjoy. Such is not the case however with portions of the Hartnell and Troughton years. Some of their episodes only exist in the form of telesnaps, audio recordings, and various film clips. So, we should count our blessings, and be happy with what we have in the case of Invasion of the Dinosaurs.
Thanks,Lance.
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 3, 2005 17:18:11 GMT
We as fans should be glad that episode one of Invasion of the Dinosaurs even exists at all for us to see and enjoy. Such is not the case however with portions of the Hartnell and Troughton years. Some of their episodes only exist in the form of telesnaps, audio recordings, and various film clips. So, we should count our blessings, and be happy with what we have in the case of Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Who said they weren't grateful?  To sort of answer the question, I don't know! After the aforementioned rumour was debunked, I've always assumed it was an accident due to the disorganisation of the junking, very much like how The Tenth Planet 4 got junked/lost/whatever and we don't know how. Perhaps whoever junked it believed they had a duplicate copy and the master was held at another location. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on Jun 5, 2005 2:58:35 GMT
One theory is that Barry Letts thought the dinosaur effects were so awful, that he instructed that ep 1 be erased soon after transmission to prevent the story ever being repeated or sold overseas...
Jon Preddle
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Post by Stuart Douglas on Jun 5, 2005 9:09:35 GMT
One theory is that Barry Letts thought the dinosaur effects were so awful, that he instructed that ep 1 be erased soon after transmission to prevent the story ever being repeated or sold overseas... Jon Preddle Thank God other Producers didn't start erasing every episode they were involved with which had bad special effects  Stuart |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2005 10:54:32 GMT
IOTD ep1 was erased in 1974 less than 6 months after broadcast which explains why it was rumoured that it had been mistaken for the Troughton Invasion ep 1.
I doubt Barry Letts would have sanctioned a destruction like that as he would have been depriving actors of an income from repeat fees. As producer he would not be able to make those decisions so soon after, if at all. The equity agreement at the time allowed all programmes a one off repeat in a 18 month period from transmission which is why Evil was the first story to be repeated and in the seventies one pertwee story was repeated from the previous year.
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 5, 2005 13:50:18 GMT
IOTD ep1 was erased in 1974 less than 6 months after broadcast which explains why it was rumoured that it had been mistaken for the Troughton Invasion ep 1. I doubt Barry Letts would have sanctioned a destruction like that as he would have been depriving actors of an income from repeat fees. As producer he would not be able to make those decisions so soon after, if at all. The equity agreement at the time allowed all programmes a one off repeat in a 18 month period from transmission which is why Evil was the first story to be repeated and in the seventies one pertwee story was repeated from the previous year. Also, regarding the Barry Letts rumour, it doesn't make sense - why junk only the first episode (in which the dinosaurs only appear at the end) out of six? Surely he should have asked for the entire story to be junked or just Part Six? |
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Post by David Zientara on Jun 5, 2005 15:25:21 GMT
Equally intriguing is: after losing the original videotape copy of the episode, how do they end up with a 16mm black and white telerecording of the episode? Didn't they stop making telerecordings of episodes by then?
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Post by andrew martin on Jun 5, 2005 16:18:21 GMT
My pet theory is that, given that there are two versions of episode 3, someone wiped episode 1 thinking it was the first edit of episode 3... But that's just a wild theory with nothing to back it up.
"Invasion of the Dinosaurs" was in fact the last story that had film recordings made from it - the BBC recording cards state that the other episodes had f/rs made (there is no card for ep.1 as they were thrown away when a tape was wiped), though "Death to the Daleks" and the rest of that season didn't.
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 5, 2005 16:34:02 GMT
Equally intriguing is: after losing the original videotape copy of the episode, how do they end up with a 16mm black and white telerecording of the episode? Didn't they stop making telerecordings of episodes by then? From Outpost Gallifrey's episode guide entry: What exactly is an engineering print? |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jun 5, 2005 17:54:31 GMT
What exactly is an engineering print? Who knows?! It sounds like one of those fan made-up expressions! The film print is actually one of the official BBC telerecordings made by Enterprises for overseas sale (from memory, one of two times the original VT was telerecorded). There is this long held myth (as indicated in the OG comment) that the telerecording is of poor quality in some way, but all those who have worked with it say that it's a perfectly good print and better than many others that are in the archive! Richard |
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 5, 2005 18:25:45 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up Richard. I haven't seen Invasion of the Dinosaurs yet, but reading that information on Outpost Gallifrey was the first time I'd heard that "Dinosaurs" 1 was supposedly in poor quality.
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Post by ianj on Jun 5, 2005 20:21:06 GMT
:)Ive got Dinosaurs ep.1 taped(about 12 years ago) from UK Mould on vhs, and the print quality is fine, though scratchy.................................I wonder if it would be deemed good enough for transmission today, though........funny, isnt it--the programme CONTENT today for typical output, is crap. eg. How clean is my shed/ Titchmarsh does Shakespeare, Kidswap, Buy my hovel etc. etc. etc. etc.-- but the transmission QUALITY is usually high......................................ianj  |
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Post by David Zientara on Jun 5, 2005 22:01:03 GMT
:)Ive got Dinosaurs ep.1 taped(about 12 years ago) from UK Mould on vhs, and the print quality is fine, though scratchy.................................I wonder if it would be deemed good enough for transmission today, though........funny, isnt it--the programme CONTENT today for typical output, is crap. eg. How clean is my shed/ Titchmarsh does Shakespeare, Kidswap, Buy my hovel etc. etc. etc. etc.-- but the transmission QUALITY is usually high......................................ianj That is an interesting point. It is a sad fact that while the catalog of extant Doctor Who material will likely never be complete, there's no chance of any of the existing episodes of "Fear Factor" or "Yes, Dear" ever being destroyed. [And the world will never be rid of the movie "Showgirls" either.] |
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