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Post by ethan tyler on May 11, 2005 13:12:19 GMT
Before the unedited episodes of The Time Meddler were returned, how much footage was missing from the overall story and in what condition were the episodes? How much footage is still missing from the third episode? I read that a "sequence" of close-ups is missing, which suggests more than the few frames I imagined. Does anyone know how the original owner came by the unedited (i.e. BBC archive, overseas archive, skip... etc.)? If it's not common knowledge, then I withdraw the question as it's not my place to ask, but I was just curious.
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Post by Steven Sigel on May 11, 2005 13:48:38 GMT
I'm pretty sure that episode 3 is complete - I think episode 4 is still slightly edited...
The worst edit was in episode 1 where the entire opening Tardis sequence was missing from the first print that was located (I think that one came from Nigeria)
I'm not sure exactly where the uncut copies were located, but I know that Ian Levine found them somewhere and loaned them to the BBC.
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Post by Mark Brown on May 11, 2005 13:50:51 GMT
the prints of 'The Time Meddler' are relatively poor The BBC copies of episodes one, three and four all contain edits, notably the entire introductory sequence where the
Doctor and Vicki discover Steven in the TARDIS at the beginning of episode one. Fortunately, collector Ian Levine has unedited
copies of episodes one and three, so these were used to patch in the sequences missing from the BBC prints.
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Post by Steven Sigel on May 11, 2005 14:15:02 GMT
Hi Mark -
The complete prints of eps 1&3 really aren't that bad. I didn't think they were dramatically worse than any of the other T/Rs from that era...
Did the RT use a Spirit transfer of the recovered prints when they did the videotape release? Or did they just splice in the additional footage? If not, perhaps they will borrow the prints when they do the DVD and do another transfer...
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Post by ethantyler on May 11, 2005 14:22:45 GMT
I'm pretty sure that episode 3 is complete - I think episode 4 is still slightly edited... The worst edit was in episode 1 where the entire opening Tardis sequence was missing from the first print that was located (I think that one came from Nigeria) Thanks for the reply. Did Nigeria buy The Chase? If not, I would imagine that the TARDIS sequence was edited so it made sense/followed the previous story better. I was actually briefly wondering earlier about the countries that purchased Season 3 save for Mission to the Unknown/The Daleks' Master Plan. The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve does not work following on from The Myth Makers, so I was wondering if any episodes had ever been returned (particularly redudant episodes that already existed) that had been edited for continuity reasons. I think he was looking after them for a friend and so it was not his decision to lend them to the BBC, which is where that stupid fan myth about Ian Levine hoarding missing episodes originated. I could be wrong about that. Talk about gratitude though! I, for one, am very grateful to Ian Levine for everything he has done to recover missing/unedited episodes and for effectively bringing about the end of the junking era (and thus saving more than just Doctor Who). |
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Post by ethantyler on May 11, 2005 14:25:40 GMT
the prints of 'The Time Meddler' are relatively poor The BBC copies of episodes one, three and four all contain edits, notably the entire introductory sequence where the Doctor and Vicki discover Steven in the TARDIS at the beginning of episode one. Fortunately, collector Ian Levine has unedited copies of episodes one and three, so these were used to patch in the sequences missing from the BBC prints. Thanks. What are the condition of the prints that Ian Levine has/had? I would imagine that they're of equal quality to the BBC's copies or worse otherwise the BBC would have upgraded, surely? |
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Post by ethantyler on May 11, 2005 14:28:14 GMT
I'm pretty sure that episode 3 is complete - I think episode 4 is still slightly edited... I've just checked on the Doctor Who Clips list (http://dwclips.steve-p.org/) and you're right - it is the fourth episode (Checkmate). Four seems to be the unlucky number with edited episodes - The Time Meddler 4, The Celestial Toymaker 4 and The War Machines 4 (and The War Machines 3). |
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Post by Steven Sigel on May 11, 2005 14:32:10 GMT
Ian is a great guy and was intrumental in helping to recover many Dr. Who episodes. Any rumours of his having hoarded episodes are absurd...
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Post by ethantyler on May 11, 2005 14:41:42 GMT
Ian is a great guy and was intrumental in helping to recover many Dr. Who episodes. Any rumours of his having hoarded episodes are absurd... I know. I've heard some very, very stupid rumours over the years. The award for the dumbest ever goes to the "Ian Levine has all of Marco Polo and showed it to Carol Ann Ford" rumour. I mean, really! ;D Something tells me that is an old rumour, possibly pre-Internet, when it wasn't so easy to check the facts. I think most of the rumours that circulate as fact are from pre-Internet days when everyone relied on word-of-mouth and Doctor Who Magazine for news. |
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Post by Jon Preddle on May 12, 2005 3:22:51 GMT
Thanks for the reply. Did Nigeria buy The Chase? . Yes they did. The Chase *did'nt* screen in NZ, so the removal of the TARDIS scene might have been done by the NZBC. All the other cuts to The Time Meddler films that were recovered from Nigeria were made by the New Zealand government film censor in 1968. We now know this for fact when I found the NZ censors excision notices last year. Complete prints of eps 1,2, and 3 were found elsewhere so only part 4 is incomplete - all thanks to the NZ censors! Jon Preddle |
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Post by Steve Boyce on May 16, 2005 19:15:47 GMT
I think I'm right in saying that, surprisingly enough, there are several (at least 3) copies of ep 3 floating around now, and there are 2 copies of both eps 1 and 2, but the Nigeria copy is the only known copy of ep 4. The vagaries of time.
Correct me if I'm wrong about that someone...
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Post by Time Meddler on May 17, 2005 4:25:16 GMT
I know of at least 4 copies of ep 3 (including the copy in the BBC archives), but only two that I know of are originals. and at least two copies of ep 4, but only one is original.
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Post by B Thomas on May 17, 2005 4:54:42 GMT
It would seem that episode 3 seems to exist several times over.
A 16mm copy of this episode was recently advertised on Ebay (within the last couple of months or so).
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Post by ianj on May 17, 2005 11:31:34 GMT
we have an awful lot to thank Ian Levine for, over the years.............and, of course , all the others who have helped in their way, be it big or small........................3 CHEERS! regards, ianj
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Post by B Thomas on May 17, 2005 12:36:51 GMT
we have an awful lot to thank Ian Levine for, over the years.............and, of course , all the others who have helped in their way, be it big or small........................3 CHEERS! regards, ianj Hehehe... I remember when I wrote to the BBC back in the eighties. I was so happy that I could inform them where they could source colour copies of "The Claws of Axos" (episodes 2 and 3) which were, at that time, missing. How proud and important I felt! ;D I got a very nice letter back from a lady at the BBC (whose name I've now, sadly, forgotten) informing me that they had just found a collection of colour Pertwee episodes in (I think) Canada. Bugger! Oh well, I nearly found something missing... And the BBC were very nice to me about it all.  |
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