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Post by LanceM on Apr 18, 2005 1:15:11 GMT
Hello to all.
Do you remember the telesnap find from the story Marco Polo? And also of late there was a idea that the seccond episode of Marco Polo ( The Singing Sands ) was either viewed at an conventipn or hoarded by a european film collector. And the rumor of the episodes existing in Iran or other Arab countries? Any ideas would be appreciated on the existence of this episode.
Thanks,Lance.
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Post by Ash Stewart on Apr 18, 2005 6:39:20 GMT
Singing Sands at a convention was a hoax. Definitely.
Not heard anything about a "European film collector" with it (or indeed any episode...).
Iran was where New Zealand sent their copies of some (or all) of the episodes once they had finished with them. Some 30 years ago...
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Post by Mike Smallman on Apr 18, 2005 12:53:31 GMT
The Singing Sands was NOT a hoax,merely a story that grew out of something that I said on stage at a convention in the 1980s. At the first Tellycon event, we were lucky enough to get a VHS copy of the then missing Faceless Ones 3.Although we had promised on our fliers that we were going to be showing a missing episode it was touch and go as to whether we were going to get one.We plucked up the courage to print the fliers as we had been promised (falsely) a copy of 10th Planet 4. When this turned out to be fake,we thought we would end up with egg on our faces. All sorts of other possibilities surfaced,and from this we found Faceless 3,& later, Evil 2.
On stage on the day of the con,I was feeling excited & very nervous too.I was to announce the episode - without giving the title away. So as a pramble.I mentioned a few of the other episodes we were looking for.Including 10th Planet 4 AND The Singing Sands. From this small preamble (which I dried up saying several times - nerves) came the still circulating rumour that Singing Sands does exist. It was wishfull thinking on our behalf.To this day, people still ask me is there any truth in The Singing Sands existing.
I hope that clears up this story for you.
Cheers
Mike.
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Post by Ben on Apr 18, 2005 14:44:52 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up, Mike.
I regrettably must confess that I never believe any rumours regarding Marco Polo as it's one of the most hoaxed stories (probably the most after The Tenth Planet). I think people choose it to hoax because it had the healthiest overseas sales over every other missing episode (nineteen) thus - though not necessarily - increasing the chances of its survival. It is also a fan favourite and the earliest missing episode/story. Until recently, only the soundtracks survived - no clips, no telesnaps - which made it even more of a target. However, with the recent recovery of telesnaps for all but The Wall of Lies, I expect that particular episode will become the focus of most Marco Polo hoaxes.
Having said that, I've mentioned elsewhere that's I've always had a feeling (very scientific!) that we would one day see an episode of Marco Polo...
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Post by William Martin on Apr 18, 2005 15:47:05 GMT
There must be something even if its only a bit of 8mm cine. The most duplicated story and nothing has turned up? still that could work both ways. Either the shear number of copies means that something has survived or, given that nothing has turned up,(they can't all be in the hands of collectors)must mean that probably nothing has survived.  |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Apr 18, 2005 16:31:27 GMT
The most duplicated story and nothing has turned up? You're jumping to a big conclusion here. Just because (as far as we know) this was the "lost" story to be sold to the most countries, it does not follow that it was also the most duplicated. As is well known, broadcasters were often requested to forward film prints on to the next country that wanted them once they had transmitted the episodes. The 19 countries that we know puchased the rights to show Marco Polo could have been served by a small number of actual film prints. Richard |
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Post by Adam James Smith on Apr 18, 2005 18:59:07 GMT
a few seconds of Marco Polo DID exist up until the early 90s: censor cuts that were wiped before they could be discovered.
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Post by Ben on Apr 18, 2005 22:24:15 GMT
a few seconds of Marco Polo DID exist up until the early 90s: censor cuts that were wiped before they could be discovered. Do you have anymore information about this, such as the origin (i.e. who censored the episodes) and whether there was any other missing footage known to have been wiped? |
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Post by Ben on Apr 18, 2005 22:24:44 GMT
Also, any idea what those few seconds were of?
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Post by Brad Phipps on Apr 19, 2005 0:38:32 GMT
Iran was where New Zealand sent their copies of some (or all) of the episodes once they had finished with them. Some 30 years ago... Documentation only lists the first two episodes being sent to Iran. The film can for Episode 7 was found in Wellington in 1991, but contained an entirely different film. |
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Post by Brad Phipps on Apr 19, 2005 0:45:36 GMT
Also, any idea what those few seconds were of? A list was recently found in New Zealand, but I'm not gonna type them out here. However: FIVE HUNDRED EYES: Four Cuts WALL OF LIES: Three Cuts RIDER FROM SHANG-TU: Three Cuts MIGHTY KUBLAI KHAN: Two Cuts ASSASSIN AT PEKING: One Cut The first two weren't edited, which could explain why Iran only took those and not the other five. |
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Post by Ben on Apr 19, 2005 0:45:51 GMT
The film can for Episode 7 was found in Wellington in 1991, but contained an entirely different film. Don't you just hate it when that happens?!  Like the Fury from the Deep 6 can and The Ice Warriors 2 can (although that turned out to contain The Ice Warriors 1, which is a better episode). Any idea what was inside the Marco Polo 7 can? Don't suppose it's possible that Marco Polo 7 got put in the can that should have contained whatever the "Polo" can contained? Though that's probably absent too! Does it strike anyone else as odd that a lot of cans were mislabelled? How exactly is this possible? |
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Post by Ben on Apr 19, 2005 0:48:24 GMT
A list was recently found in New Zealand, but I'm not gonna type them out here. However: FIVE HUNDRED EYES: Four Cuts WALL OF LIES: Three Cuts RIDER FROM SHANG-TU: Three Cuts MIGHTY KUBLAI KHAN: Two Cuts ASSASSIN AT PEKING: One Cut The first two weren't edited, which could explain why Iran only took those and not the other five. Thanks Brad. I haven't heard Marco Polo, but, based on what I know of the story and having seen the existing NZ censor clips, I can imagine what the censored footage was. Damn. The existing censor clips are the best surviving clips, especially the "Macra" and "Smugglers" footage! |
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Post by Brad Phipps on Apr 19, 2005 0:50:45 GMT
The can for Marco Polo 7 contained an episode that was missing from TVNZ's own archive! So they were happy to get that back. The film can was simply being used to store the episode, with it's original contents most likely junked.
A tin labelled 'The Moonbase 3' was also found (on the same day I believe), but again didn't contain the missing Who episode.
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Post by Ben on Apr 19, 2005 0:58:00 GMT
Thanks for the explanation. It never occured to me that the cans might be recycled. Let's hope some missing Doctor Who episodes currently inhabit mislabelled film cans. ;D
Ben, ever the optimist?
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Like the Fury from the Deep 6 can and The Ice Warriors 2 can (although that turned out to contain The Ice Warriors 1, which is a better episode).