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Post by Nigel Bland on Feb 11, 2005 22:21:32 GMT
I wouldn't mind betting that the BBC secretly wish everyone who worked for them in the 60s/70s HAD all nicked a few film reels - after all, there'd then be more chance of getting stuff back!
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Post by Stephen Neve on Feb 12, 2005 12:55:29 GMT
What a strange person you seem to be. Lance does tend to ask questions and raise points which have been discussed to death over the years and ocasionally makes statements which clearly he has no basis for ('I believe that the BBC holds records of the employees that were involved in cleaning out the archives.'), but that's perfectly harmless compared to your constant, deranged belief that anyone who points out that some things are just, well, not plausible is somehow in the wrong. Richard Bignall is respected in the Who fan community for his knowledge fo the show - something, I expect, which you have yet to achieve. As for your apparent belief that people in the their 70s can't remember whether they illicitly pinched a bulky film can from their employers offices thrity years ago...I take it you're about 16 years old, hence the unflattering suggestion that anyone over 65 must be senile. There is no reason to believe that the BBC ever kept records of staff told to clean out some rooms even at the time, never mind those records surviving until now. Why on Earth would they do so? When you get a job you might well find out that people ask you to do all sorts of things at work without *any* paperwork at all! I'm 26 actually Douglas! Its not always the fact that Richard points out things are wrong, its often the way he does it in a rude arrogant SARCASTIC MANNER, the gospel of Doctor Who according to Richard Bignell. When he attacks someone on this forum he comes across as a big, I KNOW EVERYTHING attitude, and is ude an arrogant when pointing out any facts, he thinks are neccesary. He may be a friend of yours Douglas, he certainly ain';t a freind of mine. |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 12, 2005 14:19:41 GMT
Its not always the fact that Richard points out things are wrong, its often the way he does it in a rude arrogant SARCASTIC MANNER, the gospel of Doctor Who according to Richard Bignell. When he attacks someone on this forum he comes across as a big, I KNOW EVERYTHING attitude, and is ude an arrogant when pointing out any facts, he thinks are neccesary. He may be a friend of yours Douglas, he certainly ain';t a freind of mine. ROTFLMAO!!! ;D ;D Can you kindly read over the posts I've made to you over the past week or two and point out to me *exactly* where I've been rude, arrogant or any of the other things you level at me, because I sure can't see it. Where you have been mistaken on various issues, I've tried to put you right. What's wrong with that? Or is it that you just don't like someone directly challenging the flaky details that you constantly like to refer to as being solid facts? Is that the problem here? You just don't like people pointing out that you actually may have a totally skewed perspective on certain things? I fully appreciate that not everyone may have the same level of knowledge about a given subject as others and indeed, one of the great things about forums such as these is that it gives people an opportunity to share information and build on the knowledge base. But for some strange reason, you seem to be very against this notion and anyone who tells you anything contrary to what you wish to be the truth has to have got it wrong. You've referred to yourself as "an investigator and as such takes every bit of evidence and examines it thoroughly and then makes a decision on the validity of the evidence," but many of the things you've said on these threads belie that point. I've never said that you're wrong on every detail, but the fundamental mistake you often make is to take your personal assumptions and present them as being fact when they are often anything but. As noted historian Lady Antonia Fraser has commented in the past, this is one of the biggest headaches in doing historical research - separating the true facts and details from people's personal opinions. From what I can see Stephen, you've been the one hurling the insults, and I rather wish that you would stop. If you don't like listening to what other people have to say, then fine. But please don't expect me to stop challenging things that are inaccurate or that lead people into drawing the wrong conclusions. Richard |
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Post by LanceM on Feb 13, 2005 21:55:36 GMT
Hey Richard,
can't Steven and you just call a truce here? We are all fans of Doctor Who, that should be enough for all of us to see things on an equal level, in that spirit I ask for a truce. Richard, why dont you send Steven an detailed list of some of the facts that he sometimes misinterprits as facts. If you both had the true facts at your fingertips then there would be peace. It may be worth a try. Good Luck.
Lance.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Feb 14, 2005 12:33:03 GMT
ROTFLMAO!!! ;D ;D Can you kindly read over the posts I've made to you over the past week or two and point out to me *exactly* where I've been rude, arrogant or any of the other things you level at me, because I sure can't see it. Where you have been mistaken on various issues, I've tried to put you right. What's wrong with that? Or is it that you just don't like someone directly challenging the flaky details that you constantly like to refer to as being solid facts? Is that the problem here? You just don't like people pointing out that you actually may have a totally skewed perspective on certain things? I fully appreciate that not everyone may have the same level of knowledge about a given subject as others and indeed, one of the great things about forums such as these is that it gives people an opportunity to share information and build on the knowledge base. But for some strange reason, you seem to be very against this notion and anyone who tells you anything contrary to what you wish to be the truth has to have got it wrong. You've referred to yourself as "an investigator and as such takes every bit of evidence and examines it thoroughly and then makes a decision on the validity of the evidence," but many of the things you've said on these threads belie that point. I've never said that you're wrong on every detail, but the fundamental mistake you often make is to take your personal assumptions and present them as being fact when they are often anything but. As noted historian Lady Antonia Fraser has commented in the past, this is one of the biggest headaches in doing historical research - separating the true facts and details from people's personal opinions. From what I can see Stephen, you've been the one hurling the insults, and I rather wish that you would stop. If you don't like listening to what other people have to say, then fine. But please don't expect me to stop challenging things that are inaccurate or that lead people into drawing the wrong conclusions. Richard Okay, I have read over what you said Richard, maybe I have difficulty communicating effectively, such as not using the correct wording. I take each piece of evidence and examine all posibilities, and then a draw a logical conclusion, but yes sometimes its my own personal opion that creeps in as well. Why I no doubt you are a good resarcher Richard, you are not an episode hunter and don't know the first thing about episode hunting! thats my opion only, not a fact. Seriously I never knew about Denmark showing Dr Who, is this only recently been discovered. |
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Post by Douglas on Feb 14, 2005 12:38:42 GMT
Thanks for the update Douglass, and I am again sorry if I was at all rude or unknowledgable about some of my previous statements ( And if there was bad grammer, I also am sorry for that). It is hard to do research online sinse there arenot alot of sites that show the sort of indepth information that is needed to make some of these archival questions, and threads online? And to answer the previous question Grade School is all grades from Kindergarten to 8Th grade. Well any links that you might have Douglass would be great, please e-mail me at stereofreak01@hotmail.com Hi Lance As a start, you (and Steven) could do far worse than reading everything on this excellent missing episodes site... www.geocities.com/markles2000/index.htmlRegards D |
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Post by Douglas on Feb 14, 2005 12:42:05 GMT
Okay, I have read over what you said Richard, maybe I have difficulty communicating effectively, such as not using the correct wording. I take each piece of evidence and examine all posibilities, and then a draw a logical conclusion, but yes sometimes its my own personal opion that creeps in as well. Why I no doubt you are a good resarcher Richard, you are not an episode hunter and don't know the first thing about episode hunting! thats my opion only, not a fact. Seriously I never knew about Denmark showing Dr Who, is this only recently been discovered. Sorry, but I really do have to ask - what is an Episode Hunter? Is that a bit like the Crocodile Hunter? Or more like a Big Game Hunter? Is weaponry involved at all? D (with apologies in advance for the sarcasm but really...) |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 14, 2005 16:58:16 GMT
Why I no doubt you are a good resarcher Richard, you are not an episode hunter and don't know the first thing about episode hunting! Then I wonder what that big file I have has in it if it's not all the communications with overseas television stations and archives that I've made over the years? I wonder who it was who did months of research, closely working with Steve Roberts in order to track down and secure the studio footage from Evil of the Daleks and Fury from the Deep? What's the practical extent of your search for missing material, Stephen? You're not kidding. No, it's been known about for years. Richard |
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Post by steve davies on Feb 14, 2005 19:26:55 GMT
Blimey, you wouldn't think it was Valentine's Day would you!!!  This reply covers this thread and the Macra Terror and ABC archives ones. Stephen Mate, Is it not about time we all calmed down about this, it is getting a little tiresome now. This constant cheap shot throwing does you no favours. If I can add my two cents (IMHO) With regards to the ABC archive thread, it is possible that there may be missing episodes over there, and elsewhere too, but at present the evidence Richard has shows otherwise. If we take the BBC archive for eg, we all know the archive has been checked with a fine tooth comb. But that has not stopped misfiled episodes of Adam Adamant Lives, TDDUP turning up alongside Fury trims and the Power trailer. And from the top of my head, the Ice Warrior find had episode one in the episode two can. But I feel that despite all this, what we have to realise is that if we enmasse search these archives for potentially zilch (which is a possibility), you have to look at the side of Big Business or organisations, which I think Richard is ( not claiming to speak for you Richard, even though it looks like I am - Sorry Richard) The BBC has to draw a fine line regarding the license fee, and if they spent "x" of millions searching, you can make up your own horror headline in the papers on how they sqaundered public money looking for programmes that they destroyed. I can understand where Richard is coming from, he has the up to date evidence, and as he says in one of his postings, other info can come to light and change the whole ballgame. If I had several million spare and went up to Richard and offered to privately fund an overseas check I'm sure his ears would prick up, despite the fact he might question my sanity. Richard is right to question people who make statements which are opinion and not fact, all he is doing is putting people clear on the issues, in years to come he may be proved wrong if more episodes turn up. I am guilty of this also, before I get things thrown at me, I assumed that as Denmark was not on the RT overseas sales it may have been an omission. I was wrong in the fact that it was a sale list of missing episodes. Apologies to Richard and Thanks to Fatso the Wombat for putting me right on this. Insulting people by saying they have a clouded mind does no-one any favours. May I also add that I dont agree with everything Richard and others say, and I am not a yes-man. It is also worthy of note that not everyone agrees with me either, this is human and I hold no grudge with anyone on this. But if Richard has evidence which at the time is believed to be correct, you have to bite the bullet or just leave it at that. Sorry to have been so long winded, but hey there you go. Best to all on the forum Steve |
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Post by Lance M on Feb 14, 2005 21:35:23 GMT
Hey all, possibly it may be time to drop our grudges, and suspicions of one another and call a truce. We could even move along and put our apparent differences in opinion aside, and continue with the root question that was asked so long ago. What are the chances that another ( Francis Watson kept Day of Armageddon) ex-employee of the BBC way back when nicked another episode of Doctor Who? Any reply's on this question would be fantastic.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Feb 15, 2005 10:24:23 GMT
Then I wonder what that big file I have has in it if it's not all the communications with overseas television stations and archives that I've made over the years? I wonder who it was who did months of research, closely working with Steve Roberts in order to track down and secure the studio footage from Evil of the Daleks and Fury from the Deep? What's the practical extent of your search for missing material, Stephen? You're not kidding. No, it's been known about for years. Richard Keeping an open mind is the most important thing Richard! You seem have a downer about me Richard beacuse of my methods. I am not trying to undermine the important research you do Richard or cause trouble. On a previous thread you state that Macra Terror dose not exist in New Zealand as the official paperwork says it was destroyed in june 1974, thats your job, fair enough. But Neil Lambess claims he saw the Macra Terror at his school, possibily after the junking. If it was down to you Richard then I gather you woulden't investigate Neils claims beacuse your happy with the paperwork. Where as I would investigate Neil claims as thats my job. Okay I appreciate that you have been involved in recovered footage, but you only seem happy to research, thats not enough in episode hunting, you need to put all personal opions aside, keep an open mind and always way up all the posibilities and then start dismissing them. Regards |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 15, 2005 22:24:08 GMT
I've already explained this to you on a couple of occasions, Stephen - but I'll try again in the possibily vain hope that it might actually penetrate your brain this time. I do not say, and never have said, that any documentation is infallible. What it does provide is a valuable and more often than not reliable starting point from which to build information. If other details come to light as you go along, you assess all the information as a whole. But, it is a valid research procedure to take, as a principle source, information recorded by the relevant people on-hand at the time.
Sigh. No, I take what Neil remembers as being very valid. But I also take into account that this a recollection from 30 years ago, it is supposedly only within a few months of when the Macra film prints were to have been destroyed and that the lead has also already been investigated by Neil himself and, thus far, drawn a blank.
What is this guff about "thats your job" / "thats my job" that you keep spouting? I've already asked you in my previous post to tell us all about the practical extent of your hunt for missing material, Stephen. Something that I notice that you've avoided addressing. What *exactly* do you do in your "job" as an "episode hunter"? Who have you contacted, who have you visited, how many collections have you looked through, how exactly are you following up all these great leads? What have you done to track down The Macra Terror in New Zealand based on Neil's information? Or is the extent of your "job" just to sit at your PC and expound all your theories to us lucky readers?
And yet I've managed to track material down. And you..?
Richard
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Post by Stephen Neve on Feb 18, 2005 11:33:08 GMT
I've already explained this to you on a couple of occasions, Stephen - but I'll try again in the possibily vain hope that it might actually penetrate your brain this time. I do not say, and never have said, that any documentation is infallible. What it does provide is a valuable and more often than not reliable starting point from which to build information. If other details come to light as you go along, you assess all the information as a whole. But, it is a valid research procedure to take, as a principle source, information recorded by the relevant people on-hand at the time. Sigh. No, I take what Neil remembers as being very valid. But I also take into account that this a recollection from 30 years ago, it is supposedly only within a few months of when the Macra film prints were to have been destroyed and that the lead has also already been investigated by Neil himself and, thus far, drawn a blank. What is this guff about "thats your job" / "thats my job" that you keep spouting? I've already asked you in my previous post to tell us all about the practical extent of your hunt for missing material, Stephen. Something that I notice that you've avoided addressing. What *exactly* do you do in your "job" as an "episode hunter"? Who have you contacted, who have you visited, how many collections have you looked through, how exactly are you following up all these great leads? What have you done to track down The Macra Terror in New Zealand based on Neil's information? Or is the extent of your "job" just to sit at your PC and expound all your theories to us lucky readers? And yet I've managed to track material down. And you..? Richard I don't want to get into another argument with you Richard. I have read what you have said and shall say no more about it, except about the downer you have on me as an episode hunter. Hey, I have not found missing material, but I am not certainly sitting here at my PC doing nothing as you have pointed out. I am currently following a lead in Australia at the moment. Visit the Space Pirates thread for more details Richard on this forum. Hey nothing may come of it, nothing lost, only a bit of time. Anyway I am prepared to call a Truce Richard, I have insulted you and you have insulted me. Truce! I will leave that up to you Richard. Regards |
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 18, 2005 13:52:31 GMT
I have read what you have said and shall say no more about it, except about the downer you have on me as an episode hunter. No, just on the way you choose to go about things. I think I've made the reasons for that very clear. You seem to be very keen on this one. Assuming this is the person concerned (and assuming that it isn't just a made up story - the original information is *very* thin), I'm interested why you didn't get around to contacting Mr Kent for some four months after getting his address, until Adrian offered to do it for you? Just out of interest, how did you go about tracking the person down? I'm not aware I've insulted you at all, Stephen. Simply pointed out the areas where you've been in error. That's quite a different thing. That's fine with me! But then you did say that you weren't going to continue the discussion two weeks ago! Richard |
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Post by Rob Jackson on Feb 19, 2005 0:18:01 GMT
Steven. I think you should calm down.
Richard. You come across as a pompous old know it all.
Me. I find the whole thing hilarious lol.
You are both going to give youreselves ulcers if you aren't careful.
Oh & Richard.I was trying to find the last time where you hadn't lifted any quotes out of previous posts.You do it on the RT site as well.Very annoying,& a little lazy methinks.
Having said all that,I do come down on the side of Richard in this as he obviously takes more of a Mister Spock role to Stevens rabidly possessed Kirk ha ha.
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