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Post by garygraham on Nov 29, 2023 14:53:07 GMT
Maybe for future Blu-Ray releases, they can give the fans an option to watch 60s Doctor Who in either Black and White or to view it in a colorized format. We do have the behind the scene photographs of many episodes both missing and existing, so it can be colorized accurate to the photographs. If they want to see it in color, it's up to them. If they want to see it in black and white as intended, it's up to them. Whenever they have released a story with significantly different visuals (ie replaced SFX), the standard version has always been there, usually as the default. For the forthcoming release of The Daleks In Colour, the standard black and white version will still be there. There's no reason to think that won't continue to be the case. I'm not sure. What about if we want to see one of the Hartnell or Troughton episodes exactly as it was screened in the 1960s? I can go my 1980 VHS recordings for "The Krotons" and see the original wobbly end credits. But where else? On many episodes the credits have been remade and are level in a way titles simply were not in the days before computer titles. Also I'm curious about how the BBC manages to do this? Surely in some cases some of the picture of the final shot is being removed so new titles can be slapped on? I have the Network boxset of ATV's Thriller. Network simply cleaned up one animated ATV logo and put it at the front of every single episode. If you watched TV in the 70s you know that the ATV sequence varied enormously from one programme to another. Perhaps I'm being somewhat fanatical? Most viewers won't care. But I LIKE to see TV as it was originally screened. Is a particular ATV animated sequence part of an episode? Or what about the ident countdown boards at the start of 1970s episodes of Top of the Pops? Apparently many of those were cut in the migration from 2 inch tape. Were they an integral part of each programme for historians? There is a dishonest element to some of this but that must be balanced against what they think the average viewer would prefer. Then there's the questions of what, if anything, is being cut out: music, material that's offensive to modern viewers... And the BBC becoming even more cynical and commercialised. I can see every reason why the black and white version of this Doctor Who story might largely disappear in favour of the colour version.
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Post by garygraham on Nov 29, 2023 19:30:32 GMT
There you go... As I'm off work today I pulled out my VHS tape from 9 November 1981. You can see the titles of episode one of The Krotons on the version that is currently on iPlayer are not those that are on the broadcast in 1981. All sorts of fiddling has been carried out and for what reason exactly? Just so the titles are more level to save the BBC some embarrassment over how bad they looked sometimes? Looking at the end of the episode "The Reign of Terror, Guests of Madame Guillotine" on iPlayer it looks like someone has masked part of the image, repeated some of the picture and then frozen the picture so the title can be remade. Who knows how this compares to the original because, no, I don't think we will ever see it again now!
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Post by garygraham on Nov 29, 2023 19:44:46 GMT
On the 1981 broadcast of episode one of "The Krotons" there is a 4 frame mix between these two titles. But not on the version currently on iPlayer. So this is distorting what television was like in the 1960s and how it was made - warts and all. Everything wasn't clean, level and clear cut (pun intended!) Again for what reason? So some pompous modern day person can stamp their contribution onto a 56 year old classic programme? I haven't even looked any further than the start of episode one yet!
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Post by garygraham on Nov 29, 2023 19:55:38 GMT
On episode two you can see how the designer has spaced the name titles so the lettering almost touches. Whoever remade the titles digitally hasn't done that, preferring the bog standard modern style of spacing. This is actually an insult to the person who originally made those titles and the erasing of their creative contribution.
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Post by sonnybh on Nov 29, 2023 21:27:45 GMT
The Restoration Team remade the titles for most of the DVD releases from what I remember.
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Post by simonashby on Nov 29, 2023 23:50:16 GMT
I can go my 1980 VHS recordings for "The Krotons" and see the original wobbly end credits. This isn't as broadcast. The end credits are wobbly due to distortions in the film recording process, and warping of film over time. Look at credits on tape and whilst they're not totally perfect simply due to the analogue nature of the technology, they're nowhere near as wobbly. Surely in some cases some of the picture of the final shot is being removed so new titles can be slapped on? Nope, either an identical shot is taken from a reprise in the following episode, or the frames are carefully edited to paint out the old credits with the new, cleaner computer credits put on top. There are instances where either method had proved unfeasible (perhaps due to a complicated or fast moving shot) and the original credits were maintained, at least in part. Perhaps I'm being somewhat fanatical? Most viewers won't care. Somewhat indeed. I can see every reason why the black and white version of this Doctor Who story might largely disappear in favour of the colour version. Oh boy.
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Post by garygraham on Nov 30, 2023 1:42:19 GMT
By wobbly I mean roller credits. As an example, on many programmes the titles change in terms of how horizontal they are as the roller progresses and the paper unwinds. That is nothing to do with film recording. All kinds of things happened in the studio: cameras wobbling, the stand holding the roller wobbling. In the early days programmes were only allowed to stop the videotape a limited number of times. Often, as one camera took the final shot, another would have to quickly frame up on the roller as best it could, ready to go. That is why sometimes the credits aren't level. I've done the very same thing in the TV studio, but with title cards rather than a roller. This is part of the making of the programme. On "The Reign of Terror, Guests of Madame Guillotine" as the "next episode" credit appears and music starts, at the foot of the middle prison cell bar I can see some sort of wipe has been used. Different parts of the picture are moving about in two different directions due to the weaving of the film. Also there is something happening with his face. I think the same frames are repeated again. Actually not that "careful"! Here it is: wobble.mp4 (660.21 KB) It really is bloody horrible hacking at old programmes like this. Think how hilarious and stupid it is: creating a new digital mess so authentic but less-than-perfect titles can be removed! Fanatical perhaps but are you really going to criticise that on THIS site? And it's where the abbreviation "fan" comes from
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