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Post by maxstenner on Feb 23, 2023 18:35:50 GMT
The last broadcasts of the missing episodes were in the mid 70s, in Nigeria and Zambia. (Last one being The Space Pirates in 1976). At this time, videotape was first becoming available. Is it possible that these episodes exist on domestic video tape recorded at the time?
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Post by John Wall on Feb 23, 2023 20:14:08 GMT
I’m unsure when domestic video recorders made it to those countries.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 23, 2023 22:06:28 GMT
The last broadcasts of the missing episodes were in the mid 70s, in Nigeria and Zambia. (Last one being The Space Pirates in 1976). At this time, videotape was first becoming available. Is it possible that these episodes exist on domestic video tape recorded at the time? Given that only a tiny handful of domestically recorded episodes survive from this country from that period, the chances of anyone in mid-70s Nigeria or Zambia, with all the various upheavals they were going through at the time, having in their possession a very expensive video machine and the will to bother recording the programme in the first place must be non-existent at best!
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Post by anthonybartley on Feb 24, 2023 15:54:57 GMT
It would be quite remarkable, though, I mean, just imagine some worn VHS tape appears and on it is a fuzzy, wobbly, copy of Marco Polo episode 2.
That would be one for the history books! (for all the reasons cited above by by Richard Bignell)
I agree, chances are zero minus if such a measurement were possible. The technology of the extremely rich and wealthy (at the time) in some village in 1970s Nigeria, where they're not only "well into" their Dr. Who, but can also afford the shockingly expensive video tapes. Let's suppose one of them won the lottery (or inherited a diamond mine) - where would they buy the tapes, let alone the player?
The only remote possibility (pipe dream) could be a TV station recording them for future repeats/sales to other stations. The TV studio would have been a specialist environment - and it's a lot cheaper than striking up 16mm prints, etc. I seriously doubt it... although my mate's mate who's half Apache/half Siberian reckons they did show some ME on his reservation when they were growing up in Cleethorpes. His father later moved into the fast food business where he fries chips for a living, or so I've heard. Might be Syrian.
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Post by RossL on Feb 24, 2023 17:11:31 GMT
Even in the vanishingly small chance of domestic recordings having been made *would the tapes still be playable today?*
What state would a tape be in after baking in the roof space of a house or in a shed for nearly 50 years in a humid country like Zambia? The yearly average temperature is almost 30C there. Even in winter the temperature barely reaches a low of 20C.
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Post by maxstenner on Feb 24, 2023 18:14:58 GMT
What about Gibraltar? Last aired missing episodes in 1973. Certainly better off than Zambia and Nigeria
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 24, 2023 19:40:35 GMT
What about Gibraltar? Last aired missing episodes in 1973. Certainly better off than Zambia and Nigeria But you still face the same problem as before. VCR purchasing in the early 1970s was tiny as the machines were so costly. Add to that the cost of the tapes for the machine were also very pricey and comparatively short in length. The other factor is population. In the early 1970s, Gibraltar only had a population of 29,000. In the UK it was around 55 million and yet even here (barring the odd anomaly), the most passionate fans were only beginning to video record off-air from early 1976 onwards. It was a really big thing back then for the early fans to find someone who still had an off-air video of Revenge of the Cybermen #4 that had been recorded six months earlier. If you're not finding virtually Doctor Who earlier than pre-mid 70s in the UK because the take-up of personal VCRs was so minute, the chances of finding it on an island where the population was almost 1900 times less is highly unlikely!
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Post by John Wall on Feb 24, 2023 19:52:20 GMT
Yep, we’ve been looking for someone who recorded IotD1 - January 1974.
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Post by gbaker on Feb 24, 2023 20:28:03 GMT
The last broadcasts of the missing episodes were in the mid 70s, in Nigeria and Zambia. (Last one being The Space Pirates in 1976). At this time, videotape was first becoming available. Is it possible that these episodes exist on domestic video tape recorded at the time? Given that only a tiny handful of domestically recorded episodes survive from this country from that period, the chances of anyone in mid-70s Nigeria or Zambia, with all the various upheavals they were going through at the time, having in their possession a very expensive video machine and the will to bother recording the programme in the first place must be non-existent at best! Totally agree. What might be infinitesimally less unlikely is that after their final broadcast, the films 'found their way' into private hands who owned a film projector. So, who might have been those 'private hands'? Wealthy people in business or the civil service with access to foreign film projection equipment? The chances of the films lurking in someone's attic in situ after all this time must be extremely close to zero. But, hey, it's a nice thought.....
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Post by John Wall on Feb 24, 2023 21:12:03 GMT
Given that only a tiny handful of domestically recorded episodes survive from this country from that period, the chances of anyone in mid-70s Nigeria or Zambia, with all the various upheavals they were going through at the time, having in their possession a very expensive video machine and the will to bother recording the programme in the first place must be non-existent at best! Totally agree. What might be infinitesimally less unlikely is that after their final broadcast, the films 'found their way' into private hands who owned a film projector. So, who might have been those 'private hands'? Wealthy people in business or the civil service with access to foreign film projection equipment? The chances of the films lurking in someone's attic in situ after all this time must be extremely close to zero. But, hey, it's a nice thought..... What actually seems to have happened is that they were either destroyed on London’s instructions or sent to London for destruction. Yes, a few “escaped”:but not very many. The reason quite a few survived in Nigeria seems to have been a combination of circumstances. By the mid 70s Enterprises were flogging colour stuff so no-one was chasing b&w prints in West Africa or no-one in WA was taking much notice of Enterprises!
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Post by RossL on Feb 24, 2023 21:23:13 GMT
Totally agree. What might be infinitesimally less unlikely is that after their final broadcast, the films 'found their way' into private hands who owned a film projector. So, who might have been those 'private hands'? Wealthy people in business or the civil service with access to foreign film projection equipment? The chances of the films lurking in someone's attic in situ after all this time must be extremely close to zero. But, hey, it's a nice thought..... What actually seems to have happened is that they were either destroyed on London’s instructions or sent to London for destruction. Yes, a few “escaped”:but not very many. And depressing though it might be even if there are missing episodes languishing forgotten in an attic chances are the collector is extremely elderly & their entire collection will end up in a skip when the family clear the house on their death...... Because unless they have made specific provision in their will thats going to be the fate of all that junk up in the loft.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 24, 2023 21:59:32 GMT
What actually seems to have happened is that they were either destroyed on London’s instructions or sent to London for destruction. Yes, a few “escaped”:but not very many. And depressing though it might be even if there are missing episodes languishing forgotten in an attic chances are the collector is extremely elderly & their entire collection will end up in a skip when the family clear the house on their death...... Because unless they have made specific provision in their will thats going to be the fate of all that junk up in the loft. That’s a point I’ve made repeatedly here over the years - and there is evidence to substantiate it.
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Post by RossL on Feb 24, 2023 22:05:19 GMT
I know you have John - for a recent event look at the fate of the big collection in Australia reported recently - tons & tons of material compacted & landfilled with a relatively small amount saved.
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Post by Ralph Rose on Feb 25, 2023 5:38:27 GMT
One of my first jobs was fixing old VCRs. VHS/Betamax from the 1970's was not only costly, the machines themselves were HUGE. What they called portable came in separate modules. There was a playback module, tuner module, a camera module, and a battery module for the camera. . The stuff from the 80's were more compact but still huge and costly compared to a VHS machine from say 1995. So just some perspective into what some of those machines were like. www.rewindmuseum.com/vhs.htm
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Post by odysseaschristou on Feb 25, 2023 11:43:28 GMT
One of my first jobs was fixing old VCRs. VHS/Betamax from the 1970's was not only costly, the machines themselves were HUGE. What they called portable came in separate modules. There was a playback module, tuner module, a camera module, and a battery module for the camera. . The stuff from the 80's were more compact but still huge and costly compared to a VHS machine from say 1995. So just some perspective into what some of those machines were like. www.rewindmuseum.com/vhs.htmThat was the first VHS I got back in the day (early eightes)
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