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Post by gbaker on Jan 22, 2023 22:55:30 GMT
Animation is the only way this classic will ever be seen again. It's been nearly sixty years since the only UK transmission and not a sign of even a single minute of footage has come to light since the missing episode hunt started. It's gone I've accepted it and no fish fryer claims will bring it back😔 This thread is ironic in that either DWM or DWB remarked in the 80's that some poor-quality soundtracks of Marco Polo were circulating amongst fans. The soundtracks sounded as though the activities of Marco and the others were accompanied by the sound of chips frying in the background. 😊 On a more positive note (optimistic, bordering on the insane), the fate of some of the prints of the first 5 Hartnell stories, together with a number of prints in Singapore (Season 3 minus MTTU and DMP plus Smugglers, Tenth Planet and POTD) has never really been accounted for satisfactorily. Twelve years ago the fate of the Nigerian prints of Snowmen, EOW, WOF and WIS had also never been satisfactorily accounted for. And then we had Itunes Friday for 2 of them! Hope springs eternal.....
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Post by Ed Brown on Feb 9, 2023 4:54:03 GMT
There are still missing/lost BBC recordings out there, and you don't need to go as far as Algeria to find them.
Radio 4 aired a missing episode of Hancock's Half Hour last October, and a complete recording of a Goon Show episode that previously existed only as a Transcription edit. In a few weeks time, Radio 4 Extra will be airing the final missing episode of The Navy Lark, which has just been found.
These tapes were discovered in England, obviously the most likely place to find missing episodes because this is where they were made and where they were transmitted, not in some remote location overseas.
If further orphaned episodes of 'Who' are out there, then, like the Underwater Menace episode, and the Galaxy 4 episode, they are more likely to be found in England. For instance, in 1990 David Stead recovered an orphan episode of Wheel in Space from an English film collector.
One orphan episode of The Crusade turned up in NZ, but recent experience has been that overseas finds are likely to be complete serials, as in the case of Tomb of the Cybermen, found in Hong Kong, and Enemy of the World / Web of Fear, found in Jos.
Overseas TV stations have no use for orphaned episodes. If they have film, it is going to be a complete serial or nothing. The NZ find was a single episode in the hands of a private collector, not a find at a tv station. The TV stations in the cities of Hong Kong and Jos held full serials.
Therefore, it is logical to conclude that finds of orphaned episodes will most likely occur in the UK, and finds of complete serials will be overseas. Orphan episodes will be held by film collectors, or by former employees of television companies, not by tv stations. Complete serials will likely be held by tv stations.
We are not talking about 'wiped' or junked films, even. We know of one orphan episode that is 'at large' in England right now, namely the final missing reel of Web of Fear, which went walkabout from the tv station in Jos. We also know that, in the 1970s, one episode of The Tenth Planet went missing from the Blue Peter production office in London, and is also now 'at large' somewhere in England.
There are also recurring rumours of a reel from Power of the Daleks, said to be at large in Australia, also in the possession of a film collector.
We need to know what to look for, but also where it is most likely to be profitable to look.
It's highly unlikely that no one knows the whereabouts of those three particular reels. Collectors have friends, and will show rare items to them, within a (very) small and tight-knit circle. Some people will know that these items exist, and will know who has them. The news might take years, if at all, before it leaks out, though.
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Post by Ed Brown on Feb 9, 2023 5:37:34 GMT
This thread is ironic in that either DWM or DWB remarked in the 80's that some poor-quality soundtracks of Marco Polo were circulating amongst fans. The soundtracks sounded as though the activities of Marco and the others were accompanied by the sound of chips frying in the background. 😊 A nice idea. Actually, to inject a note of reality, I recovered some audio recordings of 'Marco Polo' from a professional vendor, who was selling tapes at a London science fiction mart in the 1990s, on cassette, which were in very good condition. Not quite as good as the Graham Strong tapes, but still very nice quality. There was no hint of 'fish frying' background noise. Even such early recoveries, despite being analogue, on audio tape, were not bad by any standards. I think back on the horrors of collecting audio recordings in mp3 format a few years later, in or around 2001, and clearly remember the hissing background of frying fish then! Thankfully, flac and m4a iTunes audio have rescued us from the horrors of mp3, which is more likely what you're recalling!
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Post by andyparting on Feb 9, 2023 8:21:46 GMT
There are still missing/lost BBC recordings out there, and you don't need to go as far as Algeria to find them. Radio 4 aired a missing episode of Hancock's Half Hour last October, and a complete recording of a Goon Show episode that previously existed only as a Transcription edit. In a few weeks time, Radio 4 Extra will be airing the final missing episode of The Navy Lark, which has just been found. These tapes were discovered in England, obviously the most likely place to find missing episodes because this is where they were made and where they were transmitted, not in some remote location overseas. If further orphaned episodes of 'Who' are out there, then, like the Underwater Menace episode, and the Galaxy 4 episode, they are more likely to be found in England. For instance, in 1990 David Stead recovered an orphan episode of Wheel in Space from an English film collector. One orphan episode of The Crusade turned up in NZ, but recent experience has been that overseas finds are likely to be complete serials, as in the case of Tomb of the Cybermen, found in Hong Kong, and Enemy of the World / Web of Fear, found in Jos. Overseas TV stations have no use for orphaned episodes. If they have film, it is going to be a complete serial or nothing. The NZ find was a single episode in the hands of a private collector, not a find at a tv station. The TV stations in the cities of Hong Kong and Jos held full serials. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that finds of orphaned episodes will most likely occur in the UK, and finds of complete serials will be overseas. Orphan episodes will be held by film collectors, or by former employees of television companies, not by tv stations. Complete serials will likely be held by tv stations. We are not talking about 'wiped' or junked films, even. We know of one orphan episode that is 'at large' in England right now, namely the final missing reel of Web of Fear, which went walkabout from the tv station in Jos. We also know that, in the 1970s, one episode of The Tenth Planet went missing from the Blue Peter production office in London, and is also now 'at large' somewhere in England. There are also recurring rumours of a reel from Power of the Daleks, said to be at large in Australia, also in the possession of a film collector. We need to know what to look for, but also where it is most likely to be profitable to look. It's highly unlikely that no one knows the whereabouts of those three particular reels. Collectors have friends, and will show rare items to them, within a (very) small and tight-knit circle. Some people will know that these items exist, and will know who has them. The news might take years, if at all, before it leaks out, though. How is it known that Web 3 is in this country? The last I heard of it - years ago - was that it was on its way to Australia?
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Post by Sara Irving on Feb 9, 2023 8:32:52 GMT
There are still missing/lost BBC recordings out there, and you don't need to go as far as Algeria to find them. Radio 4 aired a missing episode of Hancock's Half Hour last October, and a complete recording of a Goon Show episode that previously existed only as a Transcription edit. In a few weeks time, Radio 4 Extra will be airing the final missing episode of The Navy Lark, which has just been found. These tapes were discovered in England, obviously the most likely place to find missing episodes because this is where they were made and where they were transmitted, not in some remote location overseas. If further orphaned episodes of 'Who' are out there, then, like the Underwater Menace episode, and the Galaxy 4 episode, they are more likely to be found in England. For instance, in 1990 David Stead recovered an orphan episode of Wheel in Space from an English film collector. One orphan episode of The Crusade turned up in NZ, but recent experience has been that overseas finds are likely to be complete serials, as in the case of Tomb of the Cybermen, found in Hong Kong, and Enemy of the World / Web of Fear, found in Jos. Overseas TV stations have no use for orphaned episodes. If they have film, it is going to be a complete serial or nothing. The NZ find was a single episode in the hands of a private collector, not a find at a tv station. The TV stations in the cities of Hong Kong and Jos held full serials. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that finds of orphaned episodes will most likely occur in the UK, and finds of complete serials will be overseas. Orphan episodes will be held by film collectors, or by former employees of television companies, not by tv stations. Complete serials will likely be held by tv stations. We are not talking about 'wiped' or junked films, even. We know of one orphan episode that is 'at large' in England right now, namely the final missing reel of Web of Fear, which went walkabout from the tv station in Jos. We also know that, in the 1970s, one episode of The Tenth Planet went missing from the Blue Peter production office in London, and is also now 'at large' somewhere in England. There are also recurring rumours of a reel from Power of the Daleks, said to be at large in Australia, also in the possession of a film collector. We need to know what to look for, but also where it is most likely to be profitable to look. It's highly unlikely that no one knows the whereabouts of those three particular reels. Collectors have friends, and will show rare items to them, within a (very) small and tight-knit circle. Some people will know that these items exist, and will know who has them. The news might take years, if at all, before it leaks out, though. Off the top of my head, TP4 went back to Enterprise and was junked - it was DMP4 (The Traitors) which didn't go back to where it came from - the film library IIRC. Though, people far more knowledgeable than I have said on multiple occasions that it's believed it got mistakenly sent to Enterprise instead of back to the film library, and got junked there. Though it would be very nice to think that it might still be out there somewhere.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 9, 2023 10:02:28 GMT
We know of one orphan episode that is 'at large' in England right now, namely the final missing reel of Web of Fear, which went walkabout from the tv station in Jos. To be fair, we don't actually have any proof that it was ever in Jos in the first place and even if it was, and it was stolen, there's no indication that it's in England now. We don't actually "know" anything of the sort, Ed. In all probability, the print was safely returned back to Enterprises, from where it originated. There's no records of them complaining that the episode that had been loaned out hadn't been returned. Enterprises still had their full set of 16mm negatives for the story at that point in any case. It's not recurring all that much then, as I've never heard of it! There was a rumour of an Australian collector having the complete story a few years back, but the individual concerned has since been confirmed as just a time-waster.
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Post by andyeves on Feb 9, 2023 18:53:19 GMT
We know of one orphan episode that is 'at large' in England right now, namely the final missing reel of Web of Fear, which went walkabout from the tv station in Jos. Even if one accepts that WOF3 was originally there & snaffled by the Jos station manager, we don't know that it is 'at large' anywhere (England or elsewhere) despite Phil's extreme optimism. Alas there is a good chance that the Jos guy destroyed it in order to hide the evidence of his crime. I've not heard this one either. Interesting though as Richard M rates Power as one of the least likely stories for which any MEs are still out there.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Feb 12, 2023 10:14:13 GMT
Alas there is a good chance that the Jos guy destroyed it in order to hide the evidence of his crime. There's a much greater chance he simply tossed it in the bin, in the first place, rather than returning it to the location of the other 11 episodes.
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Post by andyparting on Feb 12, 2023 17:17:47 GMT
Alas there is a good chance that the Jos guy destroyed it in order to hide the evidence of his crime. There's a much greater chance he simply tossed it in the bin, in the first place, rather than returning it to the location of the other 11 episodes. Which is exactly what I suspect my fish fryer did with the original TARDIS control room interior doors before Season 26 went into production. Rather than returning them to the location of the 11 other pieces of control room. I asked him about it Friday, and he immediately began back-pedalling with, "I don't know anything about missing original TARDIS control room interior doors!' I thought it was a bit 'fishy' that he came out with the word missing... The cod was delicious, though.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Feb 13, 2023 11:43:25 GMT
We know of one orphan episode that is 'at large' in England right now, namely the final missing reel of Web of Fear, which went walkabout from the tv station in Jos. To be fair, we don't actually have any proof that it was ever in Jos in the first place and even if it was, and it was stolen, there's no indication that it's in England now. I thought we did know that all 6 episodes of Web were found. Did Phil not say that all 6 were there when he first discovered them? Richard
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Post by andyparting on Feb 13, 2023 12:59:07 GMT
To be fair, we don't actually have any proof that it was ever in Jos in the first place and even if it was, and it was stolen, there's no indication that it's in England now. I thought we did know that all 6 episodes of Web were found. Did Phil not say that all 6 were there when he first discovered them? Richard Phil shared a pic of all twelves film cans found in the Jos relay station back in 2015, among them WOF 3. That's all, no photos of all the labels. "This photo was taken immediately after Phil had discovered the film cans and verified that the film reels inside matched what was on the labels. As you are no doubt aware, one of these film cans - the one containing Episode 3 of “The Web Of Fear” – went missing in between when this photo was taken (in late 2011) and when the cans were delivered to the central collection point in Abuja, Nigeria.This photo was taken immediately after Phil had discovered the film cans and verified that the film reels inside matched what was on the labels." Link to the story, from which this quote is taken, here - www.doctorwhonews.net/2015/10/photograph-of-complete-web-of-fear-and.htmlAttachments:
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Post by Richard Bignell on Feb 13, 2023 13:38:40 GMT
Phil shared a pic of all twelves film cans found in the Jos relay station back in 2015, among them WOF 3. That's all, no photos of all the labels. Indeed he did, although that picture alone doesn't actually provide any proof that any of the twelve pictured were actually the episodes from The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear, or indeed that any other than the top can was from BBC Enterprises. They may well have been and indeed probably were what Phil claimed they were, but in this mad game, I wouldn't take anything for granted.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Feb 13, 2023 15:39:05 GMT
I suppose so.
Perhaps it was stolen by an Algerian Fish Frier.
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,861
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Post by RWels on Feb 13, 2023 18:11:25 GMT
Perhaps the fish fryer is very old and has seen the real Marco Polo; fish is good for you and extends your lifespan.
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Post by John Green on Feb 13, 2023 21:59:46 GMT
Perhaps the fish fryer is very old and has seen the real Marco Polo; fish is good for you and extends your lifespan. I'll take all that with a pinch of salt!
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