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Post by TSmith on Aug 1, 2022 12:03:28 GMT
So, this 1965 Christmas Special then. It seems the episode can be broken up into distinct sections which are predominantly trying to parody, crossover with, or allude to various figures/films & shows. Please help an uneducated fool out to fill in the blanks on what these set pieces reference.
Excluding the scenes in the Tardis, it basically boils down to:
1. Mess around in Contemporary London with Police, including the Doctor being questioned in a Police Station, Stephen disguising himself as one and Sara beating one up.
Z Cars, just without the rights. Easy so far.
Although I don't quite get what the gag is with the local resident complaining about his greenhouse being moved by 'The Rebels'. Was this a thing that happened in Z Cars?
2. Acted Scene on a Wood Mill Set with a Caped Villain trying to force a Screaming Woman into a Buzz saw.
Is there a famous piece this is referencing or is it just a kind of general style parody of Damsel in Distress films? It takes place on 'a Hollywood Movie set in the early days of film' with a director called Steinberger P Green.
3. Just outside the scene 'They pass a small figure that looks suspiciously like Charlie Chaplin'.
Does this have any connection to the previous Wood Mill scene, or is it just a famous figure they happen to have bumped into? Following on, was this meant to actually be Chaplin in story, or somebody playing him?
4. Another Film set nearby, set in 'The Sheik's Tent'.
The scene features a man in Arabian garb saying to a woman on a bed 'And then I will come to you on my Camel and sweep you away across the desert'. The director 'Ingmar Knopf' cuts him off, unhappy with his performance, with the actress agreeing 'Where did you find him, on a rubbish dump?'
Lawrence of Arabia perhaps?
When the Doctor shows up he's mistaken for the 'Expert on Arabian Customs' Professor Webster. Oh dear.
5. Stephen is given a truncheon and dragged into a Keystone Cops film.
Fairly self explanatory.
There's a few clumps of dialogue on the film sets that are somewhat drowned out by screaming and nonsense. But of what I can make out, whilst the actress is being consoled at the end by the Director there's an off screen 'Charlie' being asked to get some props. Was this meant to be Chaplin again?
6. When the Tardis Crew reunite, Sara says she don't know where she's been but a strange man kept telling her to take her clothes off.
Your guess is as good as mine.
7. An actor in a Clown outfit who was on the film set is revealed to be Bing Crosby.
Is this referring to some kind of story or joke about the singer? Did Crosby ever play a clown in anything? It feels quite an odd non sequitur. Interestingly, this supposedly young pre-fame Bing Crosby is played by a then 45 year old Robert Jewell.
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Post by John Green on Aug 1, 2022 16:47:46 GMT
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Post by George D on Aug 1, 2022 20:20:50 GMT
While not remembering the episide well, one of the most famous romantic heartthrobs of the silent movie era was Rudolph valentino and his big hit was the shiek. While Lawrence of arabia was a contemporary uk hit film and might have been an influence, it wasn't a silent film with romance focus The buzz saw scene was a standard melodrama moment From dudley doright: It apparently originated from a 1890 play en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Jeans_(play)I dont know if the off screen is chaplin but he did start at keystone. Maybe someone has other ideas. I believe someone was implying sara to get into costume, hence the joke. Would love to hear thoughts about the first half from those familiar with 60s uk tv.
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Post by Alan Jeffries on Aug 1, 2022 22:56:21 GMT
About 25 minutes.
Sorry. Could not help myself.
Alan
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Post by tom rogers on Aug 1, 2022 23:27:14 GMT
About 25 minutes. Sorry. Could not help myself. Alan Ba-da-bum! Tisssshhhh!
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Post by TSmith on Aug 2, 2022 18:00:35 GMT
Good knowledge! I wonder if Nation was a Crosby fan
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Post by TSmith on Aug 2, 2022 18:14:14 GMT
While not remembering the episide well, one of the most famous romantic heartthrobs of the silent movie era was Rudolph valentino and his big hit was the shiek. While Lawrence of arabia was a contemporary uk hit film and might have been an influence, it wasn't a silent film with romance focus The buzz saw scene was a standard melodrama moment From dudley doright: It apparently originated from a 1890 play en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Jeans_(play)I dont know if the off screen is chaplin but he did start at keystone. Maybe someone has other ideas. I believe someone was implying sara to get into costume, hence the joke. Would love to hear thoughts about the first half from those familiar with 60s uk tv. This all sounds spot on, good catches. The Shiek is definitely the more likely source than 'Lawrence' having a brief look at it. I would never have guessed a 19th century play would be the inspiration for the Buzz saw so nice find! & with the Knowledge of Chaplin being a part of the Keystone Cops, you could even tie down which film they interrupted. Maybe the Tardis Crew landed on the set of A Thief Catcher
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Post by Pete Morris on Aug 14, 2022 0:19:58 GMT
Although I don't quite get what the gag is with the local resident complaining about his greenhouse being moved by 'The Rebels'. Was this a thing that happened in Z Cars?
He says "the revels" that is, the people celebrating Christmas.
4. Often revels . an occasion of merrymaking or noisy festivity with dancing, masking, etc.
This is a Terry Nation script. His stories often included rebels, so your confusion is understandable.
One thing I've always wondered, the Doctor 'recognizes' him because the same actor appeared in an earlier story. Did they deliberately hire the same actor because they wanted to use the line?
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Post by richardlong on Aug 16, 2022 20:50:06 GMT
So, this 1965 Christmas Special then. It seems the episode can be broken up into distinct sections which are predominantly trying to parody, crossover with, or allude to various figures/films & shows. Please help an uneducated fool out to fill in the blanks on what these set pieces reference. Excluding the scenes in the Tardis, it basically boils down to: 1. Mess around in Contemporary London with Police, including the Doctor being questioned in a Police Station, Stephen disguising himself as one and Sara beating one up. Z Cars, just without the rights. Easy so far. I think that (as with Z Cars itself) it’s contemporary Liverpool, not London.
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Post by Ed Brown on Aug 17, 2022 11:26:36 GMT
What is 'The Feast of Steven' about???
'Good King Wenceslas looked out, on the Feast of Steven...'
The episode title is a reference to the famous Christmas carol, and simply is intended to convey the idea that this episode is set at Christmas. And this is aided by the fact that, in 1965, the episode aired on Christmas Day.
There are quite a few books on the history of Dr Who, that you might enjoy reading.
The new producer on 'Who' wanted to do a spoof of 'Z Cars', so he commissioned this humorous Christmas episode, believing that as it would air on Christmas Day, most viewers would literally 'lose the plot' if the show tried to continue the rather complicated Dalek Masterplan story. So this comedy episode was devised to give viewers a week off, without the distractions of Christmas wrecking their ability to follow the continuing Dalek-invasion storyline, which would instead pick up next week.
But the producer of Z Cars complained to the BBC1 Controller about Dr Who taking the rise out of his show, and the plan to import cast members from Z Cars as guests was quashed from above. Thus we were left with an episode set in Liverpool, where Z Cars was notionally set, and a half-episode of silly goings on in a police station.
The 'old man' character is hard to comprehend, without the pictures. But I think he may have been confusing the Tardis, with its potting-shed like appearance, with his greenhouse! In black-and-white, the Tardis did look a little like an out-house. In those days, the word 'police' on the Tardis prop was not very prominent, and it might in fact even be mistaken for an outdoor lavvy!
Caped Villain trying to force a Screaming Woman into a Buzz saw -
The 2nd half of the episode is a Hollywood pastiche of the Silent era. It's well said that if you don't see the point of a joke, it can't be made funny by its being explained to you! But I'll try...
The buzz-saw scene in the Sawmill, with the moustache-twirling villain, references a famous Silent serial starring the actress Pearl White from 1914, a serial entitled 'The Perils of Pauline'. The director, Mr Pea Green (as it sounds) is being used to reference that type of green colour, as a joke about the name Pearl White (pearly white was a well known colour of paint). Viewers in 1965 would have been well familiar with Pearl, the actress, and with the routine of tying her to a buzz-saw in the movies, as spoofed here.
The character called Chaplin is, indeed, meant to be the REAL McCoy. Just as the failed comic who reinvents himself as a singer, and is revealled to be Bing Crosby, is meant to be the real Crosby. The joke there is that the name 'Bing' is inherently silly, and thus only suited to a pie-in-the-face comedian, not to a serious performer. The reference to Bing in a clown outfit in one of his movies has already been explained.
Steinberger P. Green is a parody of movie-colony names such as Eric von Stroheim -- everybody in Hollywood was adopting silly, high falutin' names, in the age of the Silents, with the compulsory - often abbreviated - middlename. Especially film directors, such as the well known Eric von Stroheim. Ingmar Knopf, another Director, is a name that spoofs the Hollywood fondness for giving directors silly Central European sounding names: this one is a comical cross with Ingmar Bergman, the famous Swedish director: a Hungarian-Swedish cross! No, not Ingrid Bergman, she was an actress -- Ingmar Bergman was a well-known (male) Director.
The scene in the Sheik's Tent references the famous Silent picture 'The Sheik', made in 1921, starring Rudolph Valentino. Valentino, of course, was THE most famous of all the Silent stars. In 1965 EVERYONE knew of Valentino, the great Cassanova of the Silent era. The director thinks Sara Kingdom is there to play a hareem girl, in this Arabian love scene with Valentino, and keeps ordering her to change into her flimsy hareem costume -- hence Jean Marsh's plaintive complaint about 'a strange man who wanted me to take my clothes off'!
Finally, Hartnell is mistaken for an outside expert or academic, Professor Webster, engaged to provide technical advice on Arab customs, for the film, because Hartnell was wearing the kind of Edwardian clothes which only a stuffy academic would be wearing, in freewheeling Hollywood during the Roaring Twenties.
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Post by George D on Aug 22, 2022 19:35:56 GMT
Finally, Hartnell is mistaken for an outside expert or academic, Professor Webster, engaged to provide technical advice on Arab customs, for the film, because Hartnell was wearing the kind of Edwardian clothes which only a stuffy academic would be wearing, in freewheeling Hollywood during the Roaring Twenties. Does anyone know who played prof webster at the end? Lc uses a photo of hartnell. If so, that could be the first time the Dr played two parts.
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Post by Pete Morris on Aug 27, 2022 22:32:34 GMT
Webster was played by Albert Barrington, a bit-part actor.
I asked the same question on GallifreyBase a few years ago. Richard Bignell assured me that Albert Barrington was a real person, and not a Hartnell alias. DMP7 is his only credit listed on IMDB.
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