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Post by Mike Goldwater on Mar 21, 2022 17:40:55 GMT
At least three of the five surviving episodes of "The Newcomers" survive on 405 VT, complete with their VT countdown clocks at the start. I'm unsure whether two surviving episodes from 1966 exist in 405 VT or 16mm TR?
The Newcomers [5.5.67] - BBC1 The Newcomers [26.5.67] - BBC1 The Newcomers [7.12.67] - BBC1
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Post by Mike Goldwater on Mar 22, 2022 12:09:39 GMT
The NME Poll Winners Concert 1966, which was taped by ABC Television, appears to survive on 405 Line VT. Here's a clip featuring The Beatles receiving their awards:
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Post by markboulton on Mar 23, 2022 17:43:48 GMT
I've heard conflicting reports, whether Thames and London Weekend recorded some of their shows on 405 lines, since they inherited facillities left over by Rediffusion and ABC. It can be confusing which ITV Regions switched to recording some or all of their shows during the 1968-9 period on 625 B&W VT, some companies switched earlier than others, as early as July 1968 in some cases; whilst others didn't convert until a few months before they started colour broadcasting. Unless their are production records that exists that state otherwise, or information about the tapes used for the digitial or 625 upscale transfer, then we we won't be able to tell. I think it's something worth investigating, particuarly as a lot of these ITV shows on the list were released by the likes of Network. As you quite rightly say, Thames and LWT were taking over existing facilities so there was a long switchover. YTV and ATV Broad Street however were brand new facilities so didn't carry over any soon-to-be obsolete equipment.
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Post by Mike Goldwater on Mar 24, 2022 17:22:09 GMT
According to KAL, several Frost on Friday and Frost on Sunday editions exist on 405 Line VT. Yet when I enquired about the extant Frost on Saturday edition, they claimed that ITV informed them it exists on 625 Line B&W VT. This doesn't add up, and they were quite offish when I questioned their claim. It would seem odd if one show was taped on a different format, at Wembley Studios which was also where the other two shows were filmed, it's clear LWT hadn't upgraded their facilities by late 1968. I would just like to get a clear answer somewhere on this discrepancy.
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Post by markboulton on Mar 24, 2022 23:09:03 GMT
According to KAL, several Frost on Friday and Frost on Sunday editions exist on 405 Line VT. Yet when I enquired about the extant Frost on Saturday edition, they claimed that ITV informed them it exists on 625 Line B&W VT. This doesn't add up, and they were quite offish when I questioned their claim. It would seem odd if one show was taped on a different format, at Wembley Studios which was also where the other two shows were filmed, it's clear LWT hadn't upgraded their facilities by late 1968. I would just like to get a clear answer somewhere on this discrepancy. I don't think they were being offish, it's just more likely that it's a 625 dub of the 405 that survives.
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Post by Mike Goldwater on Mar 25, 2022 10:40:24 GMT
According to KAL, several Frost on Friday and Frost on Sunday editions exist on 405 Line VT. Yet when I enquired about the extant Frost on Saturday edition, they claimed that ITV informed them it exists on 625 Line B&W VT. This doesn't add up, and they were quite offish when I questioned their claim. It would seem odd if one show was taped on a different format, at Wembley Studios which was also where the other two shows were filmed, it's clear LWT hadn't upgraded their facilities by late 1968. I would just like to get a clear answer somewhere on this discrepancy. I don't think they were being offish, it's just more likely that it's a 625 dub of the 405 that survives. Well they weren't clear that it probably was a 625 line dub of the original 405 line tape. Indeed a good number of shows that originated on 405 line tape, are likely to survive only as 625 line copies, such as the 1964 edition of Blue Peter, or the edited repeat of the 1966 World Cup final that was broadcast in 1970. Is it true that 405 line tapes can degrade and become unplayable over time, or is that just an old wives tale?
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Post by markboulton on Mar 25, 2022 12:32:08 GMT
Maybe the ITV sales office didn't even think it was important to state what formats it had been on before? It's not important to everybody, such as recipients of clip sales.
Many 405 tapes were dubbed to 625 for various reasons, as were 2" to 1" or anything later, based on a mixture of the original being delicate (even if it played fine at the time), the need to have it in a format for which machines would be available at TX time, and/or if copies were requested for other reasons (e.g. clip sales, compilations or home video releases).
There have been instances where because a 2" tape was dubbed to 1" and that was marked as the master, the 2" was disposed of and then appeared missing but it wasn't because it was now on 1". Central did that to a lot of ATV stuff. Trouble came when 1" tape culls were undertaken and new masters were thought to be just dubs just because they said "EX... (2" Spool number)" and so it was thought bin the 1", the 2" will be there somewhere. Some Crossroads episodes became "lost" this way but only because they had been put together on a VHS tape and so of course the 1" home video master survived.
Not quite the same situation, but a 405 tape could easily have been tossed away once it was known it had been migrated to a more modern format.
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Post by Richard Marple on Mar 25, 2022 22:13:10 GMT
I think it was mentioned elsewhere that some episodes of Callan survived on 405 line tapes for years, until they were transferred to a more modern format & the original taped junked rather than being donated to the BFI.
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Post by Mike Goldwater on Mar 27, 2022 21:41:39 GMT
Here's an interesting curio that survives on 405 Line VT, a special compilation episode of 'Coronation Street' titled 'Christmas in the Street' which was broadcast on the 28/12/1968. In which Jack and Annie Walker reflect about past Christmases on the street. The special is full of clips from the past eight years, not only is this rare example of a pre 1969 episode that exists on VT, it also contains clips from Episode 630 (26/12/1966) and Episode 733 (25/12/1967) which were sourced from their original VT copies. The original VT versions were subsequently junked and all that survives today are the telerecorded copies. link
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