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Post by John Wall on Jan 28, 2022 14:22:55 GMT
Wasn’t sure if or where to post this, but as the guidelines refer to not posting about TIEA and PM (if I have got this wrong Paul V apologies), I thought this may be of interest. It was a post on Digital Spy today. Craig Cabell posted an update on Facebook, re: his claim of missing episode in the Middle East. Previously he mentioned Marco Polo 1 & 2 existing thusly, but he doesn't mention those this time: For the past two years I have been tracking missing episodes in the Middle East. These are episodes (whole stories) that were sent to Japan, New Zealand and Australia, or passed on to there and disappeared. There was evidence that New Zealand and Japan forwarded the stories on to the Middle East in 1967 and again in the early 70s. The stories I ear-marked as ‘listed, possibly sent to the Middle East’ included 17 stories from the first 5 seasons of Doctor Who. I provided dates of ‘acceptance’ to the broadcasting agency and have learnt today that ‘files exist’ corresponding with the dates I gave. Files meaning digital copies of at least ‘some’ of those stories. That is all the good news. The bad news is: they don’t want to sell as they consider the batch of stories as an asset of importance. Further investigations into this ‘importance’ suggests that their treasure acts as a bargaining tool politically, not financially. Money was offered and rejected. So what happens next? I need to allow my in-country agent to have a meeting with the director of the company holding the material to see what can be done. I need to re-engage with the BBC who have not come back to me yet, and now I have official confirmation of the existance of missing episodes, I need to engage with British official sources again and see what pressure can be applied. I suspect that Western pressure will only make the trail go cold, so I must concentrate on the in-country angle listening to Western advice. The meeting with the Director is likely to be in six weeks time, nothing goes quickly in the Middle East, but now we know material has been located we can try and find out what exactly it is. That also could be a very tricky things to do. Indeed, their naivety could mean they’ve only located stuff we already have. I don’t know, but I believe them when they say they have material from my list and corresponding dates. I promised an update when I had it and this is it. I urge everyone to remain calm because at the moment nothing will be returned. We are dealing with delicate negotiations now and any publicity could ruin the whole thing. If that happens I will close this page. I am being transparent because effectively this post is a non news item because the answer is No, but you must realise the mindset and suspicion that has nothing to do with a TV programme, but a lot to do with political stability. I will only now provide a further update when I know what is there or I am closed down from further investigations. So, please, at the moment there is nothing to get excited about. There’s a hard road ahead. Fans have always wanted to know the background to an investigation and you now know, so please be sensible and sit tight, I am as anxious as you to find out what happens next, so let us enjoy the journey. End of update. There has been discussion of the possibility of a couple of episodes of Marco Polo in Iran - but a dearth of volunteers to go and check! Have you made contact with the likes of Paul Vanezis? That’s where I’d start if I had - and I wish I did! - any information. From everything I’ve seen over quite a few years people like that are 100% discreet as they know how delicate these things can be.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Jan 28, 2022 20:11:37 GMT
Cleary a troll, given that Japan didn't air any Doctor Who until Pertwee in the late 1970s. Other than the Daleks movie (or movies?)
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Post by andyeves on Jan 28, 2022 20:24:09 GMT
I promised an update when I had it and this is it ... Where have your posted about this before, for which you promised us an update? I've just had a look through your previous posts and there is no mention of it, or indeed of promising an update on anything. Rather they are mostly comments on animations ...
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Post by andyeves on Jan 28, 2022 20:30:15 GMT
Cleary a troll, given that Japan didn't air any Doctor Who until Pertwee in the late 1970s. Other than the Daleks movie (or movies?) Either a troll or he's been smoking some highly dubious cigarettes ...
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Jan 28, 2022 21:18:19 GMT
Where have your posted about this before, for which you promised us an update? I've just had a look through your previous posts and there is no mention of it, or indeed of promising an update on anything. Have you made contact with the likes of Paul Vanezis? I don't think the the original poster is a member here, odysseaschristou was just providing what had been posted by the OP on Facebook.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 28, 2022 21:21:11 GMT
Where have your posted about this before, for which you promised us an update? I've just had a look through your previous posts and there is no mention of it, or indeed of promising an update on anything. Have you made contact with the likes of Paul Vanezis? I don't think the the original poster is a member here, odysseaschristou was just providing what had been posted by the OP on Facebook. Clear as mud, m’lud👍
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jan 28, 2022 21:40:56 GMT
Cleary a troll, given that Japan didn't air any Doctor Who until Pertwee in the late 1970s. Other than the Daleks movie (or movies?) To be fair, he doesn’t say that the episodes were shown in Japan, just that they were sent there.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 28, 2022 22:16:26 GMT
Cleary a troll, given that Japan didn't air any Doctor Who until Pertwee in the late 1970s. Other than the Daleks movie (or movies?) To be fair, he doesn’t say that the episodes were shown in Japan, just that they were sent there. I have a recollection of a discussion about b&w DW being offered to Japan in the 60s but they didn’t bite?
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Post by odysseaschristou on Jan 29, 2022 11:50:48 GMT
I’m very sorry guys/gals.
My contribution was only this part; “Wasn’t sure if or where to post this, but as the guidelines refer to not posting about TIEA and PM (if I have got this wrong Paul V apologies), I thought this may be of interest. It was a post on Digital Spy today.”
The rest was a post on DS and relates to a, Craig Cabell posting on FB. He may or may not be a troll (I have no idea), but I was just passing on information I thought people would want to discuss. I can only apologise again for any confusion I may have caused.
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Post by andyeves on Jan 29, 2022 12:31:42 GMT
I’m very sorry guys/gals. My contribution was only this part; “Wasn’t sure if or where to post this, but as the guidelines refer to not posting about TIEA and PM (if I have got this wrong Paul V apologies), I thought this may be of interest. It was a post on Digital Spy today.”The rest was a post on DS and relates to a, Craig Cabell posting on FB. He may or may not be a troll (I have no idea), but I was just passing on information I thought people would want to discuss. I can only apologise again for any confusion I may have caused. You've nothing to apologise for. As it was a rambling and seemingly implausible assertion, I only skimmed over it although I should really have read it properly if I was gonna reply. So please accept my apologies.
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Post by anthonybartley on Jan 29, 2022 16:10:55 GMT
In short, some middle-eastern TV station has not only got these episodes, but they've also transferred them to digital format. Surely there would have been some eyebrows raised in the finance department of said station when presented with the bill? Or dare I say it, even the initial request? Unless I missed the bit where Dr. Who was wildly popular in the middle east and nowadays, some 50 years later, they want their (missing) episodes in HD? If there was someone who happened to verify they had these old reels of film (sorry, digital files), why would they go down the political hostage route? They're episodes of Doctor Who, not actual people or things that might be worth something in the political sphere. It could be argued that just doing this might put the episodes in danger - once they get wind of the fact that they've got some obscure western 'treasure' then they may also just as easily burn/delete them in outrage (anti-western sentiments, and all that) Oh, and they're probably in one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in the world - but they don't want any money. The whole "don't rock the boat" speech is also one enormous contradiction in itself. Don't want attention? Don't post on the www, surely? I struggle to think of a better way to bring unwarranted attention to the cause. It could be real but if I were a betting man... I wouldn't buy some story on FB about a bloke negotiating with the Taliban to free some missing episodes in exchange for political something. Really? It did make me laugh though So not all bad.
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Post by odysseaschristou on Jan 30, 2022 13:54:56 GMT
I’m very sorry guys/gals. My contribution was only this part; “Wasn’t sure if or where to post this, but as the guidelines refer to not posting about TIEA and PM (if I have got this wrong Paul V apologies), I thought this may be of interest. It was a post on Digital Spy today.”The rest was a post on DS and relates to a, Craig Cabell posting on FB. He may or may not be a troll (I have no idea), but I was just passing on information I thought people would want to discuss. I can only apologise again for any confusion I may have caused. You've nothing to apologise for. As it was a rambling and seemingly implausible assertion, I only skimmed over it although I should really have read it properly if I was gonna reply. So please accept my apologies. Apologies accepted andyeves, and my initial post has indeed generated discussion, which was what I hoped for. Personally, I tend not to make to much of any rumours, but you never know.
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Post by maxstenner on Jan 30, 2022 14:55:32 GMT
This sounds fishy, very fishy. I remember reading on Reddit a while ago about someone who claimed to have known someone on a ‘piracy forum’ who was in contact with NIRTV who said they had Marco Polo 1 and 2 as a files. I tried contacting the OP but he never came back to me. Japan was offered Hartnell stories, from An Unearthly Child to Keys of Marinus and a later Daily Mirror report in 1967 says that Who was at that time being dubbed into Japanese. However, it is known that even if they had been sent to Japan, they were never aired. Iran is probably the country referred to, but they could only possibly have 2 missing episodes, not the at least 17 episodes claimed by Cabell. Other Arabian countries never had missing episodes. We have a lot of documentation for Australia and New Zealand and none show that anything was sent to the Middle East (except New Zealand sending the 2 mentioned episodes of Marco Polo to Iran). I’m calling fake on this.
I’m also very sceptical that a Middle Eastern TV station would bother transferring old 16mm films to files that they would never be able to air.
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Post by RossL on Jan 30, 2022 18:08:17 GMT
This sounds fishy, very fishy. I remember reading on Reddit a while ago about someone who claimed to have known someone on a ‘piracy forum’ who was in contact with NIRTV who said they had Marco Polo 1 and 2 as a files. I tried contacting the OP but he never came back to me. Japan was offered Hartnell stories, from An Unearthly Child to Keys of Marinus and a later Daily Mirror report in 1967 says that Who was at that time being dubbed into Japanese. However, it is known that even if they had been sent to Japan, they were never aired. Iran is probably the country referred to, but they could only possibly have 2 missing episodes, not the at least 17 episodes claimed by Cabell. Other Arabian countries never had missing episodes. We have a lot of documentation for Australia and New Zealand and none show that anything was sent to the Middle East (except New Zealand sending the 2 mentioned episodes of Marco Polo to Iran). I’m calling fake on this. I’m also very sceptical that a Middle Eastern TV station would bother transferring old 16mm films to files that they would never be able to air. You make the mistake of assuming all tv stations care about the legalities of running programming. Im a satllite tv hobbyist having dishes that point at all sortes of obscure satellites. I know of Middle Eatsern based channels running recent Hollywood & Bollywood films & transmitting in the clear.. We call them "mushroom" stations in the hobby - they appear, last a few months until the authorities get their uplinks closed down. A few weeks or months later they reappear with a new name , rinse & repeat. If they uplink onto one of the really obscure satellites they may even be out of reach of western pressure. Before anyone asks no Ive never seen any B&W Dr Who shown on foreign tv channels in 20+ years in the hobby (& if I ever did & believed it was missing Id report it to a relevant person for investigation)
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Post by maxstenner on Jan 30, 2022 18:42:16 GMT
This sounds fishy, very fishy. I remember reading on Reddit a while ago about someone who claimed to have known someone on a ‘piracy forum’ who was in contact with NIRTV who said they had Marco Polo 1 and 2 as a files. I tried contacting the OP but he never came back to me. Japan was offered Hartnell stories, from An Unearthly Child to Keys of Marinus and a later Daily Mirror report in 1967 says that Who was at that time being dubbed into Japanese. However, it is known that even if they had been sent to Japan, they were never aired. Iran is probably the country referred to, but they could only possibly have 2 missing episodes, not the at least 17 episodes claimed by Cabell. Other Arabian countries never had missing episodes. We have a lot of documentation for Australia and New Zealand and none show that anything was sent to the Middle East (except New Zealand sending the 2 mentioned episodes of Marco Polo to Iran). I’m calling fake on this. I’m also very sceptical that a Middle Eastern TV station would bother transferring old 16mm films to files that they would never be able to air. You make the mistake of assuming all tv stations care about the legalities of running programming. Im a satllite tv hobbyist having dishes that point at all sortes of obscure satellites. I know of Middle Eatsern based channels running recent Hollywood & Bollywood films & transmitting in the clear.. We call them "mushroom" stations in the hobby - they appear, last a few months until the authorities get their uplinks closed down. A few weeks or months later they reappear with a new name , rinse & repeat. If they uplink onto one of the really obscure satellites they may even be out of reach of western pressure. Before anyone asks no Ive never seen any B&W Dr Who shown on foreign tv channels in 20+ years in the hobby (& if I ever did & believed it was missing Id report it to a relevant person for investigation) I see the mistake I made here, Iranian TV in particular is quite famous for this, they made a fake SpongeBob film to encourage kids to join the military after all. But I don’t see why they’d transfer 16mm film prints either way in this day and age, particularly when it’s only the first 2 parts of a 7 part story.
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