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Post by barneyhall on Oct 7, 2021 7:42:22 GMT
I have just finished watching Evil of the Daleks, and boy what a fantastic story. I loved it and the animation was spot on. What a difference between this and The Web of Fear. It begs the question as to why we have so much variation in quality regarding the animations. I know that different companies have been involved, plus you have to factor in the advances in animation. But Web and Evil have been produced close to each other, yet they are like chalk and cheese. From watching the documentary on the recent web blu ray and the making of the animated episode 3, the guy said the mo cap animation was much easier and faster to produce, you could make changes and replicate scene’s very easily, where as with the other animations if you wanted to change anything you had to fully re draw it. The mo cap way with its quickness also lead to cheaper animations, the way I took what he was saying was animations with multi characters, costumes scenes etc. would be very difficult and expensive to recreate and the mo cap is the way to do these, not necessarily the best way but I think maybe the only way we will get master plan or Marco Polo and possibly highlanders. the animation of evil as with faceless ones is superb but so is the story, I wasn’t over-fussed on web of fear as a story it dragged in places. the mo cap does need some refining not sure why they had to have arms constantly waving about, I don’t frantically wave my arms about when speaking so I’m not sure why they did this when capturing the characters and as has been said the likeness of some wasn’t very good. question is if they do another animation with mo cap and people still don’t buy it where does it leave the rest of the missing stories, I think I could live with mo cap and a little improvement so I could watch highlanders especially, I would love to see smugglers done not sure how tricky that story would be to animate. for me I have the audios which are ok, I’ve watched telesnaps which I don’t care for, obviously love evil style animation but could live with and would buy web style mo cap if that’s all they could do for the tricky animations. I understand how some stories like marco and Highlanders would be difficult to do in the style of evil and faceless ones. But the motion cap meathod doesn't just need to improve in my eyes it needs evolve massively. A lot of what I saw on the web release was comparable to fan efforts. It wasn't just the poor motion the likenesses of the actor's was really off too. In my view it's so bad that rather than then get a bit better and then have a crack at a marco polo I'd rather they wait a few years till technology gets better. I don't think it's naive to say each story is only ever going to get one animation treatment and I just don't want anymore of them wasted in this way. I'm a huge fan of the animations so far bar web, even furry's waves arms didn't bother me and when you think that was a solid 7 episodes with limited visual reference materials I thought it was marvelous. I just don't want another 3 or 4 half baked poor animations from this studio before it gets close to acceptable and then theres 4 stories looked in this poor state. I'd rather be patient and wait till the animation can be done with justice. I'd go as far to say that if another animation was anounced and this studio was in charge instead of my usual thrill and glee of a classic being restored I'd be heartbroken.
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 7, 2021 8:13:37 GMT
From watching the documentary on the recent web blu ray and the making of the animated episode 3, the guy said the mo cap animation was much easier and faster to produce, you could make changes and replicate scene’s very easily, where as with the other animations if you wanted to change anything you had to fully re draw it. The mo cap way with its quickness also lead to cheaper animations, the way I took what he was saying was animations with multi characters, costumes scenes etc. would be very difficult and expensive to recreate and the mo cap is the way to do these, not necessarily the best way but I think maybe the only way we will get master plan or Marco Polo and possibly highlanders. the animation of evil as with faceless ones is superb but so is the story, I wasn’t over-fussed on web of fear as a story it dragged in places. the mo cap does need some refining not sure why they had to have arms constantly waving about, I don’t frantically wave my arms about when speaking so I’m not sure why they did this when capturing the characters and as has been said the likeness of some wasn’t very good. question is if they do another animation with mo cap and people still don’t buy it where does it leave the rest of the missing stories, I think I could live with mo cap and a little improvement so I could watch highlanders especially, I would love to see smugglers done not sure how tricky that story would be to animate. for me I have the audios which are ok, I’ve watched telesnaps which I don’t care for, obviously love evil style animation but could live with and would buy web style mo cap if that’s all they could do for the tricky animations. I understand how some stories like marco and Highlanders would be difficult to do in the style of evil and faceless ones. But the motion cap meathod doesn't just need to improve in my eyes it needs evolve massively. A lot of what I saw on the web release was comparable to fan efforts. It was just the poor motion the likenesses of the actor's was really off too. In my view it's so bad that rather than then get a bit better and then have a crack at a marco polo I'd rather they wait a few years till technology gets better. I don't think it's naive to say each story is only ever going to get one animation treatment and I just don't want anymore of them wasted in this way. I'm a huge fan of the animations so far bar web, even curry's waves arms didn't bother me and when you think that was a solid 7 episodes with limited visual reference materials I thought it was marvelous. I just don't want another 3 or 4 half baked poor animations from this studio before it gets close to acceptable and then theres 4 stories looked in this poor state. I'd rather be patient and wait till the animation can be done with justice. I'd go as far to say that if another animation was anounced and this studio was in charge instead of my usual thrill and glee of a classic being restored I'd be heartbroken. 100% agree with all you have said, unfortunately from the usual in denial blow back ie “you can’t say that”, “you should be grateful you get anything”, and in my opinion the maddest of all “it’s just fandom negativity”, (customers, eh who needs em!!), reactions I wouldn’t count on anyone listening. Unfortunately I think the real damage to prospects for further releases will happen if a multi episode animation comes out to this standard. I can see it being a real turn off to customers. Let’s have the fantastic Evil animation set the standard for the range and carry on with releases at this level. If the mo-cap animation can be raised to an equivalent quality level economically, fair enough, (don’t forget Lord of the Rings had a slightly bigger budget, as someone mentioned it), but otherwise best avoid IMHO.
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Post by RhysH on Oct 7, 2021 8:39:51 GMT
Yes, I don't disagree with the above. The animation style used in Web 3 needs to improve before they look at multi episode stories. The fan reaction has been pretty clear I think. Fingers crossed they have been clever in picking a story that there is a possibility of being recovered, so it might all work out in the end! Optimistic as always! Ha ha!
Bring on Galaxy 4!
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 7, 2021 9:57:16 GMT
Yes, I don't disagree with the above. The animation style used in Web 3 needs to improve before they look at multi episode stories. The fan reaction has been pretty clear I think. Fingers crossed they have been clever in picking a story that there is a possibility of being recovered, so it might all work out in the end! Optimistic as always! Ha ha! Bring on Galaxy 4! My thoughts exactly. It still remains the most likely recovery still, IMHO, everything crossed. Would be a bit of a b****r if it doesn’t turn up though and we end up stuck with the mo-cap & tele-snap as the only viewing options. TBH a specially recorded talking head link by Frazer, like the Brig on The Invasion VHS, would have suited me much better than what we currently have but I accept that’s a minority view. Ah well, at least we have the rest of it thank goodness.
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 7, 2021 21:11:20 GMT
I finished watching Evil of the Daleks earlier today, sheer nostalgia and personally oddly moving. The sequences in the Dalek Civil War with the humanised Daleks fighting the black Daleks in the corridors were exactly as I remembered them, albeit animated. It brought back very strong memories of being a spell bound 4 year old kneeling on the floor at our home in Carlisle watching this part of the serial on our Bush 405 line TV so long ago. This was as close as it possibly could be without recovering the missing episodes, so close in these particular sequences that it didn’t matter that it was an animation. An amazing achievement by any standard. A personal thank you to all concerned in recreating this great story so well and giving us the chance we never thought we would have of watching it again.
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 8, 2021 10:59:25 GMT
Another important “thank you” for the production team is the inclusion of an option to insert episode 2 in the monochrome run of animation. It definitely added to the enjoyment.
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Post by scotttelfer on Oct 8, 2021 15:11:22 GMT
Yes, I don't disagree with the above. The animation style used in Web 3 needs to improve before they look at multi episode stories. The fan reaction has been pretty clear I think. Fingers crossed they have been clever in picking a story that there is a possibility of being recovered, so it might all work out in the end! Optimistic as always! Ha ha! Bring on Galaxy 4! Honestly, I think the opposite. If this can handle big stories the other teams can't handle, that's what they should be doing. They've had their test project, they have the equipment, don't waste a year or two on stories the othe teams can handle at a vastly higher quality. If they can do The Highlanders or Marco Polo and nobody else can, that's what they should be doing, leave The Underwater Menace to one of the other teams in a few years time.
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Post by gbaker on Oct 8, 2021 22:52:17 GMT
Whilst it would be nice to have the optimum solution for all the animations, I would not be averse to WEB3-style quick animations if the alternative is to wait years for the animators to muster the budget and resources - after all, none of us are getting any younger! I also find it encouraging that episodes lacking telesnaps such as Galaxy 4 are being animated - there is scope for improving on the original graphics, as has been done for Evil and the others.
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Post by Robert Lia on Oct 9, 2021 0:11:57 GMT
I could accept an improved version of "The Web of Fear" animation if it was used to complete "The Crusades" and "The Underwater Menace" but I could not sit threw all 4 episodes of say "The Highlanders" in that style at the moment.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Oct 9, 2021 6:29:42 GMT
Haven't purchased just yet, but saw a clip on youtube of Alpha, Beta, Omega ... this animation is really nice. It has just enough fluid motion to give it charm. It also helps that Daleks in general are easy to animate.
Will definitely pick this one up.
Edit: I say "easy to animate". They might be difficult for animators, I don't know. It's just, every time I see them they glide around on screen very nicely.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Oct 9, 2021 20:12:49 GMT
Another important “thank you” for the production team is the inclusion of an option to insert episode 2 in the monochrome run of animation. It definitely added to the enjoyment. Now that's the kind of attention to detail that I love!
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Post by kurt devery on Oct 10, 2021 0:01:10 GMT
A massive thank you to all those who spent every Saturday in the sixties taping the soundtracks of these once lost classics and a massive thank you to those who have used these recordings to make offical reconstructions. We have come so far now who would have thought or dared hope for so much 60s who on dvd. We are so close to near complete troughton unbelievable staggering
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Post by odysseaschristou on Oct 10, 2021 11:43:50 GMT
A massive thank you to all those who spent every Saturday in the sixties taping the soundtracks of these once lost classics and a massive thank you to those who have used these recordings to make offical reconstructions. We have come so far now who would have thought or dared hope for so much 60s who on dvd. We are so close to near complete troughton unbelievable staggering I agree whole heartedly with your sentiments. Maybe, instead of constantly bemoaning the fact so much was wiped, we should thank the stars for the people who recorded the audio. Which in turn has led to the animations being possible. So defiantly a positive out of a negative (which is my mantra for life).
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Post by richardwoods on Oct 10, 2021 13:54:35 GMT
OT I know, but I’ve just posted this on the Web3 Animation thread, I’m including it again here because of the comparison with Evil in the discussion here. It appears that the punters on Amazon are by & large disappointed by the animation of Web 3 and you would hope that this level of negative feedback is unlikely to be ignored when developing future releases. www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/cr/B08NYCM567/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_paging_btm_2?pageNumber=2
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Post by nathangeorge on Oct 12, 2021 19:59:54 GMT
I have now watched all of it in b&w with the original ep2 (such a thoughtful inclusion to allow play all with original episode) and apart from a few niggles all I can say is WOW. Best one yet. I watched it with my partner who has seen all the animations apart from Fury (we're watching that one next) and Faceless Ones (not got bought it yet) and she enjoyed it so much she wants to watch it colour when I'm at work. My partner is one of the 'not we' so her opinions often help me gauge whether I'm being sad and fannish or not. But she loved Evil, meh about Power(!!) and Macra and the only animation she ever says negative things about was Reign of Terror. I'm quite eager to find out if she will she notice the arms in Fury or recognise an animated John Abineri when she hears him.
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