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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 3, 2021 21:16:22 GMT
I’m still convinced that the reason for Web 3 being done this way is cost vs potential for recovery It isn't. Any potential for recovery plays absoutely no part in the decision making.
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Post by richardwoods on Jul 6, 2021 9:04:40 GMT
Rather than having to just accept “it isn’t” as an explanation, could someone come back with an alternative explanation as to why it is thought of as a good idea to treat the animation of the missing section of arguably the best series of 1960’s Dr Who in such a way then for a “Special Edition”?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 6, 2021 12:02:52 GMT
Probably because it's thought of as being the best alternative to fit in with five episodes of original episodes.
I get that you don't like it Richard. But you're not everyone.
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Post by richardwoods on Jul 6, 2021 12:12:12 GMT
I accept that some folks like it but I’m not on my own in being disappointed & I suspect I’m in the majority. Time will tell with the sales and associated reviews. For me it’s because it’s such an iconic serial (and yes it’s my personal favourite), and in the event that Episode 3 is never found or returned I can’t see the animation ever being remade to the standard of say The Faceless Ones. It’s almost certainly a one time thing & that’s why I find it so disappointing.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 6, 2021 12:59:53 GMT
I accept that some folks like it but I’m not on my own in being disappointed & I suspect I’m in the majority. Suspect? Based on what? You're in a handful of people who have gone online to vocally moan about it - as they do with every single release that's being made. That doesn't put you in the "majority" or anywhere close to it. It's one of the really annoying aspects of fandom. Ramping up the hyperbole in an attempt to try and prove a point.
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Post by timmunton on Jul 6, 2021 13:52:33 GMT
I moaned about PT's face in Faceless Ones & moaned a bit about arms in Fury. Reign of Terror generally considered to be aesthetically displeasing. But apart from points mentioned Faceless & Fury were mainly done really well.
Web is a different kettle of fish to Faceless & Fury - not just an aspect or two that don't work but a trailer & clip which work terribly in most ways (with one or two good points). The Moonbase worked really well - more in that style would be ideal but most of the others are essentially quite reasonably done.
There may well be loads of peole who like the Web animation seen so far but personal taste is sometimes a curious thing & all sorts of artistic nightmares get hailed as successes all the time. Good to point this out sometimes if only to maintain sanity! It works the other way round too sometimes: I remember how some time back I'd come across people who would describe the genuine glories of old stop-motion animation (eg. Postgate or Starewicz) as bring "clunky"!
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Post by richardwoods on Jul 6, 2021 14:33:33 GMT
I accept that some folks like it but I’m not on my own in being disappointed & I suspect I’m in the majority. Suspect? Based on what? You're in a handful of people who have gone online to vocally moan about it - as they do with every single release that's being made. That doesn't put you in the "majority" or anywhere close to it. It's one of the really annoying aspects of fandom. Ramping up the hyperbole in an attempt to try and prove a point. Hang on, that’s totally miss representing the situation. I could just have easily accused you of making smug & clever non answers to a perfectly reasonable set of posts about the animation. Let’s at least try & keep the debate civil. It is self evident that less investment has been made on the animation for Web 3 and as it is perfectly reasonable to ask why? The most obvious conclusion may well be the wrong one but no one seems to want to put forward a better idea as to the rational behind the decision. I have also been one of the most vocal supporters of the animation of missing episodes and even in these polarised days, like everyone else I’m entitled to my opinion. Suspecting something isn’t the same as stating something is fact & I think it’s perfectly reasonable in this case to suspect that other folks may well think the same about this release.
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Post by richardwoods on Jul 6, 2021 14:41:19 GMT
I moaned about PT's face in Faceless Ones & moaned a bit about arms in Fury. Reign of Terror generally considered to be aesthetically displeasing. But apart from points mentioned Faceless & Fury were mainly done really well. Web is a different kettle of fish to Faceless & Fury - not just an aspect or two that don't work but a trailer & clip which work terribly in most ways (with one or two good points). The Moonbase worked really well - more in that style would be ideal but most of the others are essentially quite reasonably done. There may well be loads of peole who like the Web animation seen so far but personal taste is sometimes a curious thing & all sorts of artistic nightmares get hailed as successes all the time. Good to point this out sometimes if only to maintain sanity! It works the other way round too sometimes: I remember how some time back I'd come across people who would describe the genuine glories of old stop-motion animation (eg. Postgate or Starewicz) as bring "clunky"! Couldn’t agree more.
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Post by barneyhall on Jul 6, 2021 18:06:07 GMT
I accept that some folks like it but I’m not on my own in being disappointed & I suspect I’m in the majority. Suspect? Based on what? You're in a handful of people who have gone online to vocally moan about it - as they do with every single release that's being made. That doesn't put you in the "majority" or anywhere close to it. It's one of the really annoying aspects of fandom. Ramping up the hyperbole in an attempt to try and prove a point. I have to say I agree with you that some times people get wrapped up in the little community here being a reflection of the outside world but on this occasion I think you are being unnecessarily hostile to richard and I would say he is in the majority here and my basis for that is a quick read of the comments in the youtube trailer all pretty much have either disdain for the animation style or taking the piss that it looks like a playstation 2 game. Personally I got golden eye in the n64 vibes.i used to get really narked when people would complain about the animation on a release and I'd go its better than nothing but having seen the brilliant work done in power and macra and the faceless ones I'm just left cold by this one. They even have character models for the doctor Jamie and Victoria so they have made more work and cost for themselves by doing it in this newer engine. And I agree that the saddest bit is unless the real thing turns up I fear this is the best we will get there won't be another animation a few years down the line where they do it in ine with the others. This is the first one I've not preorder the steel book and may give it a miss and just wait till what ever version is released on the eventual season 5 collection. The tldr don't be so hostile there lots of evidence our there this isn't much loved and everyone's entitled to an opinion yours has no more weight than any other
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Post by timmunton on Jul 7, 2021 22:38:43 GMT
I'm assuming the remaster of episode 2 means a full-on, but as faithful as possible, new remastering of the picture & audio; giving it the best remaster technology can currently achieve. Would I be right to assume this? (I realise that this is generally the case with Who releases except for the recent Faceless Ones release).
The previous remaster was done for L.I.T. circa 2003 I think, so from more recent technological advances I'm guessing we should see a big improvement in the picture quality especially. Again, am I right to expect this or are my hopes a bit too high?
I realise the source print probably isn't in great shape and that the L.I.T. remaster or transfer was actually quite reasonable, all things considered.
How great do people think it's likely to look now? It would be nice if it looked as good as say the second DVD edition of The Seeds Of Death, which, if memory serves me correctly, looked pretty mint. Though I'm probably being highly unrealistic in such a hope as that I would imagine! Especially as I think Evil was before Who was using 625 lines.
I used to love reading the old Restoration Team website, where they'd give a detailed account of the remastering done for each story or release; going into exactly what sort of specific problems they'd found and how they fixed things and assessing what standard they felt they had managed to achieve with their work. I miss that site - wouldn't it be great if it could be revived in some form, still accessible to the ordinary internet user and with the same level of detail as before?!
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Post by stevegerald on Jul 7, 2021 23:01:40 GMT
I'm assuming the remaster of episode 2 means a full-on, but as faithful as possible, new remastering of the picture & audio; giving it the best remaster technology can currently achieve.
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Post by John Wall on Jul 7, 2021 23:14:14 GMT
I'm assuming the remaster of episode 2 means a full-on, but as faithful as possible, new remastering of the picture & audio; giving it the best remaster technology can currently achieve. Would I be right to assume this? (I realise that this is generally the case with Who releases except for the recent Faceless Ones release). The previous remaster was done for L.I.T. circa 2003 I think, so from more recent technological advances I'm guessing we should see a big improvement in the picture quality especially. Again, am I right to expect this or are my hopes a bit too high? I realise the source print probably isn't in great shape and that the L.I.T. remaster or transfer was actually quite reasonable, all things considered. How great do people think it's likely to look now? It would be nice if it looked as good as say the second DVD edition of The Seeds Of Death, which, if memory serves me correctly, looked pretty mint. Though I'm probably being highly unrealistic in such a hope as that I would imagine! Especially as I think Evil was before Who was using 625 lines. I used to love reading the old Restoration Team website, where they'd give a detailed account of the remastering done for each story or release; going into exactly what sort of specific problems they'd found and how they fixed things and assessing what standard they felt they had managed to achieve with their work. I miss that site - wouldn't it be great if it could be revived in some form, still accessible to the ordinary internet user and with the same level of detail as before?! www.restoration-team.co.uk/
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Post by stevegerald on Jul 7, 2021 23:32:32 GMT
I'm assuming the remaster of episode 2 means a full-on, but as faithful as possible, new remastering of the picture & audio; giving it the best remaster technology can currently achieve. Would I be right to assume this? (I realise that this is generally the case with Who releases except for the recent Faceless Ones release). The previous remaster was done for L.I.T. circa 2003 I think, so from more recent technological advances I'm guessing we should see a big improvement in the picture quality especially. Again, am I right to expect this or are my hopes a bit too high? I realise the source print probably isn't in great shape and that the L.I.T. remaster or transfer was actually quite reasonable, all things considered. How great do people think it's likely to look now? It would be nice if it looked as good as say the second DVD edition of The Seeds Of Death, which, if memory serves me correctly, looked pretty mint. Though I'm probably being highly unrealistic in such a hope as that I would imagine! Especially as I think Evil was before Who was using 625 lines. I used to love reading the old Restoration Team website, where they'd give a detailed account of the remastering done for each story or release; going into exactly what sort of specific problems they'd found and how they fixed things and assessing what standard they felt they had managed to achieve with their work. I miss that site - wouldn't it be great if it could be revived in some form, still accessible to the ordinary internet user and with the same level of detail as before?! www.restoration-team.co.uk/This is the "old Restoration Team website" he was talking about, unfortunately it hasn't been updated since The Underwater Menace.
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Post by timmunton on Jul 8, 2021 0:55:59 GMT
Yes, nothing about eg. the restoration of the Power & Macra clips. Though I'd actually forgotten they'd updated it as "recently" as The Underwater Menace.
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Post by Ralph Rose on Jul 12, 2021 10:10:05 GMT
I really enjoyed the first animation attempt of "The Power of The Daleks" as example, because it follows the actual telesnaps and tried to be as close to the original as reasonably possible. I would like to see more animations done in this way.
I don't care for "The Macra Terror" animation, due to the loss of one of my favorite scenes in part one. This may be due to the animators didn't want to, or couldn't make a previous animated version of Polly before her beauty treatment. It could also be due to artistic licenses, or any number of reasons. The animation also slightly clashes (in my opinion) with the previous episode of "The Moonbase", especially if watching both stories in chronological order. This due to Polly's hair and costume being different in the same scenes. I would like to see a version with this scene intact someday. I would love to see the actual stories return, but I'm also a realist, and accept that animations are the best we may ever get. I am glad they are being done.
I find that most people, here on this forum, would like to see their comments as constructive, and not a form of criticism, for criticisms sake. I also understand Richard Bignell's point of view as some fandom acts like a snake or scorpion attacking itself with the "my way or the highway" mentality. We all have differing viewpoints, and sometimes we need to "agree to disagree" with one another, and respect our differences of opinion. There are things I don't like, but I would never want to take away something that others might enjoy, just because I do not. Nor would I want to nullify someone's ideals because as fans we may not agree with one another. I would like the same respect in return.
With that said, I would like to see "Evil of the Daleks" animation done in the same way as the first "Power of the Daleks" animation. I'd also like to see the "Beatles" song "Paperback Writer" intact in the release. I accept however that my opinion may not be feasibly, artistically or financially possible.
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